For LP copy owners.

[QuattroSte]

If you wanted to buy a Les Paul guitar, would you go for the Tokai version or a Gibson. I know the Gibsons are much dearer but are they really better or is it name snobbery? Take for instance the Standard model or Studio model compared to a MIJ Love Rock.

 

[Jim Jones]

Hi there,

There's a number of ways to look at it but I think if you want a Tokai that's "just as good" as a Gibson you're going to be shelling out some cash anyway.

• 
  A lot of people don't like the Tokai pickups or find them too microphonic so they often get replaced.
  
  If you want a top that isn't a solid colour, factor in the Tokai will have a thin veneer rather than a solid maple cap like a real LP. The higher end Tokai's will have a solid maple cap.
  
  I have recently realized how much I despise a poly finish. Poly makes a guitar feel really cheap in your hands compared to a nice Gibson. The higher end Tokai's will have a nitro finish which I've become a real snob for.
  
  
  
  Just some things to consider.
  
  Jim
  

 

[whitehall]

It all depends on what you're willing to spend. If you can afford a Gibson Standard, do it. You will never regret it, and you will always get most of your money back if you sell it. I favor the ones from the 70's and the ones from 2002+. Gibson did a retool in 2002 and the bb's made their first appearence. I'm not a huge studio fan. Remember that Gibsons are very organic guitars and that's why no 2 sound or feel exactly alike. And yes ,they really are that good. The MIJ Love Rocks are fine guitars I think I paid 850usd for my new one with shipping. A pup change and you're good to go. The rest, well they're all just copies in varying guises. Some okay , some not.

 

[QuattroSte]

Originally I wanted a ES355 but I went for the Tokai ES100 and I absolutly love the feel of this guitar. Everybody who plays it raves about the neck and how easy it is to play. To finish my collection of guitars I want a Les Paul and a Strat. I will probably keep an eye out for a Tokai Goldstar to cover the strat but I think the LP will have to be a Gibson.

 

[lautmaschine]

Hi there,

There's a number of ways to look at it but I think if you want a Tokai that's "just as good" as a Gibson you're going to be shelling out some cash anyway.

• 
  A lot of people don't like the Tokai pickups or find them too microphonic so they often get replaced.
  
  If you want a top that isn't a solid colour, factor in the Tokai will have a thin veneer rather than a solid maple cap like a real LP. The higher end Tokai's will have a solid maple cap.
  
  I have recently realized how much I despise a poly finish. Poly makes a guitar feel really cheap in your hands compared to a nice Gibson. The higher end Tokai's will have a nitro finish which I've become a real snob for.
  
  
  
  Just some things to consider.
  
  Jim
  

Just want to clarify what Jim says here. I'm pretty sure that the veneer-top models actually do have a proper maple cap. It's just underneath the veneer. My MIJ does anyhow. Recently I rented a LP Standard to compare it with a 2002 Love Rock MIJ Love Rock that I was trying out. Both guitars had excellent sustain, resonance, sounded great acoustically etc. The Gibson had the nitro finish, although you only really noticed it on the back where it was a little sticky around the neck joint. But the poly finish on the MIJ tokai was great, really thin. The pickups were very different. The gibson seemed to be voiced more for blues, while the Tokai is geared for heavy rock. Very hot pickups.
Other than that, there was no major quality difference that I could notice. It was sort like comparing apples to oranges in the sound quality department, but the woods, workmanship, hardware and electronics were more or less on par with each other. Biggest difference was the price. The Gibson was going for $2300CAD used and the Tokai was $800CAD used.
Paul

P.S. this is my first post, by the way...

 

[ian]

Short answer ? I?d get the Tokai, but it would be an old one, eg 1978-1979 Reborn (LS50 is fine; LS80 is great), or if money is an issue then 1980-83 Love Rock LS60. I think the old Goto PAF's are fine.

Long answer? Let me know if you want all that stuff here!

Ian.
ps:- Lautmaschine is correct re construction (Hi welcome, by the way 8) )... MIJ Tokai has solid 1/2ins thick maple cap over solid mahogany back ... veneer is only used on highly flamed or quilted models (& it's glued on top of solid maple cap/top). Gibson LP Std. & Classic are drilled full of big weight-relief holes of course (Tokai is solid). :-?

 

[whitehall]

Ah, yes but remember , no matter what they do or say the Tokai will always be the copy and the Gibson will always be the real thing.

 

[Jim Jones]

...I'm pretty sure that the veneer-top models actually do have a proper maple cap. It's just underneath the veneer.

Aw crap, sorry - my wording wasn't very clear there now that you mention it. I did mean a thin veneer over a solid maple cap.

...the poly finish on the MIJ tokai was great, really thin.

My experience there is very different - my Tokai Jr. has the finish glopped on thick enough that is feels rather plastic-y. One day I'll be a total knob and refinish it in nitro. Maybe I'll wait until it's beat up though.

Take care!

Jim

 

[lautmaschine]

Jim,
I know the thick poly finishes you speak of. I have seen them on many guitars, particularly MIK guitars in general, etc. And my mid-90s MIJ Fender Tele has a thick finish. But this 2002 Love Rock of mine certainly does not have what I would call a thick finish. It's quite nice. I have heard that in general (and I'll add right away that this is something I cannot confirm) that some manufacturers have been able to make their poly finishes thinner in recent years. Perhaps older Tokai's have thicker finishes?

But I'm with you, on the refinishing thing. Every time I look at my Tele, I want to strip it...

 

[javelin70]

When I bought my first Tokai (TLS-50 goldtop) back in '84 it was because it was simply better than any Gibson LP I could afford! I tried a lot of Gibson LP's but didn't like them much, they were heavy and lacked sustain (most of them were late 70's/early 80's models). My local music store had just started to import Tokai so I tried the TLS-50, what a difference, they were well built and sounded great. I was able to choose from a number of new Tokai's so I picked the one I liked best, it was light and had excellent tone/sustain. I still have it 21 years later! It has a solid thick maple top and the Gotoh PAF's which sound excellent to me (the TLS-50 is not supposed to have them but mine does). The finish is also excellent and very thin which I like.

Mike

 

[ian]

Re. the ?sound? of Nitrocellulose vs. Polyurethane ? if you pop over to Les Paul Forum you can currently find them earnestly debating whether Grover machine heads sound better than Kluson :lol: . If they hadn?t deleted the threads every time, you could also find plenty of guys saying. ?Wow, just played a Tokai & shocked to find its serious rival for my Historic?, but as I say that always gets deleted (that?s OK, it?s their policy) :-? .

Ian.

 

[Jim Jones]

I don't know if there's and tonal difference between poly and nitro and I'm not enough of a "corksniffer" to care. I just don't like the feel of thick poly, it just feels kinda cheap. That being said my '78 Burny has a poly finish but I don't find it too thick at all, I guess it's just not as palstic-y looking/feeling.

Jim

 

[hans-j?rgen]

If you can afford a Gibson Standard, do it. You will never regret it, and you will always get most of your money back if you sell it.

That could also be said about Tokai Love Rocks and Reborns... :wink:

Remember that Gibsons are very organic guitars and that's why no 2 sound or feel exactly alike. And yes ,they really are that good.

That, too... :wink: See e.g. my review of three cherry sunburst Love Rocks with almost exactly the same specs (year, body parts, neck size etc.).

 

[mgdew]

Hi,

I have owned a couple of gibsons, One 2003 classic and 2003 Standard. I recently purchased a Korean LR Custom Cherry Sunburst from JSD's in Canada and shipped it to the UK.

I have to say, in comparison to my 2 gibsons the tokai is by no means inferior. The finish on this custom is superb, every bit as good as the gibsons. For me the difference is in the electronics and machine heads. The wood is resonant and the sustain is long in the tokai. Just a small amount of money extra and new pickups later the guitar would be every bit as nice to play as the gibson.

One other thing that I noticed but not only till recently, is that the gibsons fretboard binding has extended fret marker end binding, which is a slighly more classier finishing touch, but by no means important.

In summary, I like my Tokai so much that unless I come across a one in a million Gibson Custom I will not be buying another one, I will stick to finding well finished Tokai's, either Korean or Japanese, but to my hand the Korean was a superb guitar.

Martin

 

[sneakyjapan]

there are many more choices than those two mentioned. Had a Gibson LP standard and to tell you the truth, my playing didn`t sound any better on it than on the MIJ Ornettes I bought, plus the Ornettes is as well made as any guitar out there today, it`s lighter than the LP was, no flaws, has their own p`ups, and is a real beautiful instrument. For humbucker guitars I have Yamahas, Edwards, a Tokai, ESPs, Bacchus, and a Fernendes strat with a bucker in the bridge... the Japanese are producing a lot of great guitars these days that are not seen outside the country.

 

[QuattroSte]

Hmmm, mixed feelings I see. Suppose I'll just have to get out there and check them all out.

 

[mgdew]

Hmmm, mixed feelings I see. Suppose I'll just have to get out there and check them all out.

QuattroSte.. All I can say is that in terms of peoples reasons for liking guitars, well, they are all subjective to everybodies own preferences. As I said earlier, I would not go back to a gibson unless I found an absolute on in a million, as for my needs the tokai is every bit as good as them, so I would only be paying through the nose (in comparison tripple the price or more) to just have a gibson.

Some people pick up a gibson and immediately feel it is far superior, some pick them up and think "what does everyone rave about". The only real way is to play them all until you find someone that feels good to you, sounds good to you on your gear, and ultimately fits your price range.

Good luck with the hunt.

Mart

 

[whitehall]

If you look hard enough on the web you can find a forum devoted to almost every make of guitar. And on these forums will be always be people claiming that this or that blows the Gibson away. There will also be people who's sole purpose is to sell you whatever guitar the forum is devoted to. Electric guitars in general have come a long,long way since I sold them 25 years ago. ( I was a Gibson dealer). There are wonderful guitars in all price ranges these days , but you really have to invest some time in finding out what YOU like. Once you know the neck profile you like and the body shape that pleases you most the rest is easy. Let your hands and your ears be your guide.

 

[Paladin2019]

Let your hands and your ears be your guide.

Best advice anyone can give. Ignore brand names and go for the product.

 

[sneakyjapan]

reading about guitars is a good place to get info on the maker and models but ultimately you will have to play them to find one you like, easier said than done if you buy on-line I know but no maker that I know of gets it perfect every single guitar. It`s important to take your time, something I learned the hard way.