TJ 60 bridge

[pms]

I've been in possession of my TJ 60 for a few weeks now. The pickup lasted for a few days before I installed a Bare Knuckle BKP-91, which I highly recommend - transformed the tone dramatically: fatter, warmer and more open.
It's now probably the best guitar I've ever owned, including the Gibson and PRS I still have.
The thing is, I want to change the bridge.
I want to keep the wraparound style as I'm convinced that's an important part of the tone I like, but the intonation is bugging me. It's the historically-accurate thing of positioning the compensating ridge for the G string as per a wound string.
I've looked at styles like the Wilkinson, where there's a moving part to adjust for the G and B, but I'd rather keep it completely solid if possible.
Does anyone know if it's possible to get one like the fitted one/Gibson type, but with the G ridge in the right position?

 

[Jim Jones]

Hi pms,

I'm afraid I don't have an answer for you regarding the bridge, but I'm interested in the same thing. My Jr. sounds good when you're playing low on the neck but an E chord at the 12th fret isn't the most musical-sounding thing in the world.

I also agree on the pickup - what a horrendous piece of crap. I was really surprised by that, I expected more.

Jim

 

[pms]

Hi Jim,
Yeah, it's a bit of a problem. If you're very precise with tuning, mine's acceptable the whole length of the neck. It only takes the D or G to stretch a little though and it's glaringly obvious.

I really don't want to mess with the tone, it sounds amazing now. The sustain beats my LP Standard by a really noticeable amount too.
The intonation is the only thing I could really fault it on. I know guys with vintage Gibson Juniors accept it as just part of the character, but surely there are bridges that are compensated for string sets with an unwound third for people who aren't bothered about the vintage thing.

By the way Jim, when you first got yours - was the nut really badly cut?
In all other respects mine was set up immaculately, although I did raise the action a little to my tastes, but the strings were wedged tight in the nut slots. Only took a minute or two to sort it, but seems a strange oversight when the guitar was otherwise so well set-up!

 

[QuattroSte]

pms,

I recently purchased an ES100 and have the same nut problem. The strings are too tight in the nut and I have problems tuning and keeping the guitar in tune. How did you fix this?

 

[pms]

Hello QuattroSte,
You can buy proper tiny files from some of the guitar parts companies if you want to do it right.
I found some very fine hacksaw-type blades in the bottom of my toolbox which did the job. In the past though I've managed to sort the same problem with some fine emery paper folded in half.
Whatever you use, the trick is to make sure you keep the groove slanting down towards the headstock end, and make sure you don't overdo either the width or the depth (especially on the front edge).
It generally doesn't take much work at all, work slowly though and be careful.
To finish the job off, lubricate the slots - that lip salve stuff generally works well, or if you don't mind the mess, rub over the groove with the lead of a pencil so that the graphite collects in the slot.
Sometimes the lubricant is enough on it's own, so it's worth trying that first.

 

[hans-j?rgen]

Does anyone know if it's possible to get one like the fitted one/Gibson type, but with the G ridge in the right position?

Yes, the german guitar parts shop Rockinger has a one-piece bridge/tailpiece made of lightweigth aluminium and nickel-plated in their new catalogue. They call it "Rockinger Harmony Bridge", it costs EUR 59,- and the catalogue number is 3616C. And they offer stop tailpieces for Les Pauls made from the same material, too.

 

[pms]

Thanks hans-j?rgen,
That may just do the job, and it's a good price too.

I've just found out that Gibson do make them with both styles of intonation ridge, but I can't find the unwound-G style offered as a spare part anywhere. Still, probably won't be anywhere near as cheap as the rockinger.

I might leave replacing it until I get around to upgrading the pots and jack socket anyway, as it played nicely in-tune at my last full rehearsal with my band - a 45 min set and about 20 mins working on a new song before I re-tuned. My Les Paul rarely manages that.

I'd also be interested to hear if anyone else with a TJ60 has attempted to replace the scratchplate.
I fancied a tortoiseshell one, but couldn't find anyone who kept stocks of the double-cut Junior shape.
I've just ordered one from WD Music Products and had to send them a tracing of mine. This is being sent to the USA for it to be 'custom' made, is costing ?48 and will take around 5 weeks.
I'm just hoping it fits first time.

 

[red king]

I think you guys with the "JR" bridges may be having an intonation problem similar to on PRS guitars. Please read this link - this guy knows guitars (Ed Roman in Vegas):

http://www.edromanguitars.com/tech/prs_bridges.htm

A Buzz Feiten nut may also help out with the intonation.

 

[pms]

I think you guys with the "JR" bridges may be having an intonation problem similar to on PRS guitars. Please read this link - this guy knows guitars (Ed Roman in Vegas):

http://www.edromanguitars.com/tech/prs_bridges.htm

A Buzz Feiten nut may also help out with the intonation.

Hello red king,
Yeah, I've read this before. Thing is with standard sets of strings those PRS bridges play very nicely in tune. It's not perfect, but it's actually impossible to intonate a guitar perfectly anyway - it's the tempered tuning thing that guitars use, a kind of compromise.
The bridge on the TJ 60 would be fine if it did have the same pattern of break-off points. Trouble is they follow the original vintage style that works with wound third sets, which is daft.
They make a big difference to the tone though, and I'm certainly going to stick with this style, if not this particular one.

Cheers for your input though.

 

[red king]

Hi PMS

Would the Buzz Feiten nut solve the problem you are talking about?

thanks!

 

[pms]

Hello red king,
The Buzz Feiten system can certainly sweeten-up a guitars tuning. It would be pointless to put one of the nuts on a guitar with the kind of bridge that the TJ 60 has though. Helps with a guitar with an adjustable bridge.
At the end of day I supose you only have to get it close enough for rock n roll.
I googled 'tempered tuning', and found this:
http://timberens.com/essays/tuning.htm

It explains how guitars are inherantly compromised as far as tuning goes, with a few tips for better tuning.

 

[Jim Jones]

Hi pms,

I see you find your Jr. to have a an incredible amount of sustain, too. Mine also sustains more than my LP Deluxe and Burny LP (even when wrapping strings around the tailpiece on the LP's). What do you think is the major reason for this? The long neck tennon on the Jr.?

Just curious...

Jim

 

[pms]

Hi pms,

I see you find your Jr. to have a an incredible amount of sustain, too. Mine also sustains more than my LP Deluxe and Burny LP (even when wrapping strings around the tailpiece on the LP's). What do you think is the major reason for this? The long neck tennon on the Jr.?

Just curious...

Jim

Hello again Jim,
Yes, I think the long tenon contributes a lot. Overall though, my opinion is that the Junior design is such a simple one, it can resonate more freely.
The strings are anchored at a single point (which I think is very important) near the middle of the body with that style of bridge which helps, and it's a big chunky body glued to a big chunky neck with plenty of tight wood-to-wood contact for a stable join.
Also the fact that there's no cavity for a neck pickup, and only a shallow cavity for the one that is there.

That seems to make sense, but then again you don't really need all the dense wood for the sustain - there are loads of very light guitars that sustain well. And the long tenon would suggest that through-body guitars would sustain even better - and that isn't often the case.

The long tenon is certainly more stable than the shorter kind of joint. Thinking about it, it probably makes for a more rigid overall guitar than the neck-through approach too.
Perhaps that's a big part of it?

Not sure really, but there's plenty of people who reckon that you lose an awful lot of sustain by replacing these bridges with adjustable types - which also makes sense when you think about how a bridge transfers the strings vibrations into the guitar's body.

Having said that, when you said about wrapping your strings around the tailpiece of your LP - I think that may have the opposite effect there.
I always thought that you could achieve a better tone and sustain from a Tune-o-matic setup but having a steep string angle from the tailpiece up to the saddles? That way the strings are bearing down on the saddles harder, therefore better transfer of vibrations? Of course it gives the strings a stiffer feel too which a lot of people don't like.

Like I said though, I'm not too sure. It seems that a lot of ideas about guitars seem to make sense until something comes along that totally goes against the theory, yet works.

Still, all good fun!

 

[Jim Jones]

Hey pms,

Good info, thanks! I really think the Tokai Jr. is a great guitar (after a pickup change), the only thing I'm not fussy about is the poly finish. Not knowing anything about finishes is it more time consuming and expensive to go with nitrocellulose I wonder?

And if was a couple pounds heavier I'd be cool with that, too.

I like the looser feel to the top wrap on the LP's. The neck angle on my Burny goldtop makes the top wrap almost essential. The bridge is up pretty high and the string angle from the tailpiece would otherwise be too steep for a girly man like me.

Take care!

Jim

 

[pms]

If anyone's interested (especially Jim), I sorted my bridge niggles.
I went for one of the Wilkinson types in the end with the adjustable sections, and I'm very pleased I did now. My TJ60 plays very sweetly the whole length of the neck, and although the tone has changed slightly it's actually for the better.
With this bridge, you adjust the scale length to suit the two E strings in the same manner as the original with the grub screws, then set the other sections. The thing is, the E strings intonate correctly without the grub screws - so the bridge is flush against the posts, giving more direct physical contact.

I got it from www.allparts.uk.com for ?46.

Hopefully this link to a pic will work:

 

[Jim Jones]

Hey pms,

Thanks for that! I had noticed those bridges on a guitar parts site not long ago. Sounds like it might be worth taking the plunge on one.

I've been playing my Jr. more lately and have discovered that the bulk of my tuning problems stemmed from the poorly cut nut. I took a small blade to the high E, B and G string slots and I'm very happy now - the guitar stays in tune very well. The intonation doesn't seem to be bugging me so I think I'm good for the time being.

Take care!

Jim