Snow White 1985 Piare LC-60? (55 or 60, LC or PLC?)

[ayrguitarist]

Bought this a couple weeks ago, and though I'd share it with the fine folks here.

Anyone know about this Piare brand? Or have one?

I don't know much, if anything, about the Piare brand, but it appears from some googling, that it was possibly a store brand for Ishibashi (similar to Mavis, and more maybe?). These appear to be much less common than the Grandy and Mavis LC models, and I've only seen a handful of them sell on Yahoo Japan over the past 10 years.

First off, this guitar was probably one of the dirtiest and beat up guitars I've ever bought. In my top 5 for sure. But in the listing, it appeared that there were no headstock or heel cracks, and mostly intact. And it being made by Tokai, it piqued my interest, since I wasn't able to find much info on them online. It arrived to me even more filthy than I could imagine, with the jack plate destroyed, the pots seized, lots of pitting and corrosion on the gold hardware, some missing screws and knobs, and the D string bridge saddle was missing.

But I could immediately recognize that it was made by Tokai, by the serial number format, and some other tell's.

It's basically a 1985 LC-60 with the Piare badge, and proper split diamond inlay, on the headstock. It could be a 55 model (like the Grandy). And also similar to Grandy, I'd guess the model name could be PLC (i.e. TLC for Tokai, GLC for Grandy, PLC for Piare... but this is just a guess though).

It has:

• Mahogany neck (not sure the number of pieces, likely 1, and I can' see a heel cap or headstock ears)
• Basswood body (not sure the number of pieces, but likely 3)
• Dyed rosewood fretboard
• 22 medium jumbo frets with fret edge binding (fret nibs)
• Acrylic pearl block inlays
• Bone nut (looks like bone to me - although this nut is pretty busted up)
• 2 gold covered humbuckers (8.15k ohm range for both) - unknown model, but similar to the 1980's Tokai PAF's (I haven't removed the covers to check the magnets yet)
• Japanese made gold plated non wire ABR style bridge
• Japanese made gold plated aluminum tailpiece (it's really light)
• The original switch knob was amber, and the original jack plate was the 2 ply like Tokai used (black on top, white on the bottom)
• Weighs 9.68 lbs

The colour is what I assume is Tokai's Snow White. The top of the body has faded to a creamier yellow, but not much as other white guitars I've owned from the 80's. The sides of the body, back, the neck and headstock are all a little less yellow.

After lots of cleaning & polishing, replacing the pots, switch, knobs, pointers, jack plate, and some screws, it's in playable condition.

The frets have lots of play wear, and also had some string indents that I needed to file & polish out. Judging by the amount of play wear on the fretboard and frets, it was likely someone's main player for awhile, and it plays that way.

The pickups sound pretty good to me - although I've got it strung up with heavy gauged strings and tuned to C# Standard with a G# on the bottom string, and I didn't play it before cleaning (it was unplayable).

Here's the interesting thing, although I replaced the pots, it came with what appears to be the originals installed. The pot codes read Feb 1988 for the volume pots, and July 1987 for the tone pots. So it's like this was made with a 1985 body, sometime in 1988? The strange thing is that I also have a Mavis LC custom, with a 1985 serial number, and it also has pots that are newer than 1985 (I don't have any pics of those pots, but I'll check sometime again soon).

The other interesting thing is that the headstock angle is steeper than my 1984 Tokai LC-60. I don't have a way to measure the actual angle, so I'm not sure what the angles are, but I read on the Faber page that the LC-60's used 14 degrees, while the LC-100 and LC-110's used 18 degrees.

Would love to hear if anyone has more info on these, or has one.

Here's some pics:

 

[Sigmania]

Cool

I’m seeing signs of big changes around 1985 at Tokai.

Acoustic Tokai production in Japan possibly ceased by 1985. Banjo production ceased in 1984. Piano production around this time. And as Homer found, production moved from the Terawaki site to another location sometime between this time and the early 90s.

So it’s possible this guitar got caught under in the disruption and chaos?

Very cool piece of history. Congratulations!

 

[ayrguitarist]

For sure - 1985 seems like a year with lots of unknowns and changes for sure.

I just checked the pots on my 1985 Tokai TSG-60, and they are from 1986 and 1987, so maybe this mismatch of serial numbers and pot codes extends to Tokai models as well. Unless the pots date code format changed in the mid 80's? I guess it's also possible a previous owner swapped out the original pots to pots from this era, but that seems unlikely to have happened on 2 different guitars with similar years (86-88). Or Tokai had a recall on pots or something in the mid 80's, and they were replaced on 1985 models?

I do wonder when the serial number is applied to the necks. After final assembly? Likely not if these pots were original. Before finish? Before the fretboard is applied? Were these possibly built with leftover LC-100 necks with no fretboard, or did they change the headstock angle on the LC-60's in 1985?

What's interesting is that both this Piare, and every other Piare I've seen sell on YJ over the past 10 years (there's been 10 in total), had the proper split diamond headstock inlay. They all had the gotoh style tuners (not Klusons), and I've only seen customs, no standards or SG's. From the ones I can see the serial numbers on, they all start with 503, mostly 5032. And they all had the bell truss rod covers.

Interestingly, one of the Piare's had Tokai '57 P.A.F. Model stickers on the back so the pickups - they look like the ceramic versions (same as the earlier LC-60 or TSG-50).

This is the only white one I can find, all the others were black.

As far as I can tell, Tokai stopped using this split diamond inlay on the Tokai LC's in the early 80s. and instead used either the 4 diamonds, the split diamond with the split rectangle in the middle, or the flower style inlay.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has a 1985 Tokai LC, or Grandy, and if the headstock angle is the deeper 18 degrees (or around there), or the shallower 14 degrees (or around there). And also what the pot codes are.

Were there any Grandy LC's with mahogany bodies, or were they all basswood?

 

[Sigmania]

It’s so interesting looking at this guitar and realizing it has a lower serial number than the Grandys and the one Tokai LC I have seen from 1986 but it does not have the split in the inner rectangle. Makes me wonder if there was a change that happened in the design between them?

1985 Split Diamond LC Models Made By Tokai

 

[ayrguitarist]

It would be fun to compare a 1985 Tokai, Grandy, Piare and Mavis LC side by side. But I do suspect there will be a lot of variation in them, even within each brand, since as you've mentioned, 1985 was a year with a lot of changes. Someone at Ishibashi or Tokai may know the story on these.

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Thought I better join the Piare Party - serial number 5032038 is pretty close the OP's guitar and it also has the 1988 pots. And the original toggle switch is okay so I left it in there. Nice playing and sounds quite good - doesn't compare to the more recent LC60 I picked up recently but still a decent guitar.

 

[ayrguitarist]

That's awesome - these guitars are close siblings. Yours has fared better over the years I can't make out the last digit in my serial number, could be 0, or 6. Same pot dates on the volume pots as well (which make sense, they were probably made same time).

Yours is the only other white one I've seen.

When did you get yours? From Japan?

What year is your LC-60?

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

Yes I got it from Japan on an auction a few years ago. The other LC60 is discussed here

https://www.tokaiforum.com/threads/mystery-custom-lc.28344/#post-212486

It could have been a Piare at some point for all I know - but for whatever reason it really sounds great

 

[Sigmania]

If the serial number is 5031328 it fits between ayrguitarist’s Mavis and Piare. Interesting.

1985 Split Diamond LC Models Made By Tokai

 

[AlbertaLoveRock]

That is interesting yes - do we have anyone in the forums that worked at Tokai in the mid 80's ? Must have been a little chaotic in that period with all this OEM stuff going on

 

[Sigmania]

Hard to find former employees.

 

[ayrguitarist]

Came back for an update - I swapped out the bridge pickup on this Piare this weekend - (I put in a 1984 MKII or MKIII), and I reused/swapped the original gold (rusty) pole pieces and cover so it still looks "original" (it's in rough shape, but I like keeping it cohesive looking.

The original pickups sounded good to me, really good in fact, but since I have this guitar tuned really low (lowest string is G#) the lowest string lacked definition and flubbed out. Although for the typical E standard range, these pickups sounded really good, and even while in G#, they produced a very pleasing feedback - better than the MKII/III.

The original pickups in the Piare use a thin alnico magnet. The pole screws are slightly different from the typical 1985 Tokai pole screws, although same thread count and size.

Looks like the same pickups as in my 1985 Mavis.