Is this a ULS160s goldtop?

[Chesterreddragon]

Hi there Tokai gurus. I've just bought (sight unseen) what is strongly claimed by the seller to be a new ULS160 gold top. I did ask him some detailed questions, especially about the wraparound bridge, however he was adamant that it is a 160. Well it arrived yesterday and now I've checked it over I'm still not sure so wonder if there's any advice out there? The main issue I have is that it appears to be a 2 piece back, although that could be an effect of the grain. Does have orange drop caps and what appears to be a bone but. Also uncertain about the wraparound bridge and it didn't come with a tokai hardcase. I've asked the seller for any paperwork he has to prove it's a 160, however he hasn't replied so far. Enough from me, here's some pictures and I welcome your views. Thanks

 

[Paladin2019]

The caps are not orange drops. They are ceramics, which are normally used in low-end models. I'm surprised to see them in what appears to be a Japanese Tokai...

 

[Chesterreddragon]

Thanks, I did wonder about the size/shape of them but I know very little about electronics - and they are orange! Too many suspicious elements about this guitar, back it goes. Now I need to find a proper one.

 

[wulfman]

I can't help with the model number but the back is 100% 2-piece center matched.

 

[JVsearch]

Yep, send it back.

The 160 level must have a one piece back and CTS/Sprague/Switchcraft electronics.

You could have a look under the front pickup to see if there's a long tenon joint, but maybe don't even bother.

(besides P-90s can be a bit pesky to mount back in, depending on whether they mount onto a metal bar or straight into the body wood).
It would be really crap if something went wrong like the thread letting go or putting a scratch on the top etc.

Glad you can return it.

 

[Chesterreddragon]

Interestingly I emailed tokai UK about the guitar and got a reply from a Bob Murdoch who stated "That was an LS160 from Japan 2 weeks ago with 2 PC back only 1 piece on LS230 and above"
Can this be right? It certainly doesn't sound right. I've replied pointing out the specs on the tokai UK website and also asked if there's any paperwork from tokai to prove it. Most odd....

 

[wulfman]

Should be a 1-pece back unless they have their own UK/European specs.
Maybe you can email Bob the link below:

 

[nickdsmith]

I think you may have been given one of these
http://bit.ly/YycXiy

Was this the one you bought
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tokai-uls-160-gold-top-/181067931443?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2a287d5f33&nma=true&si=8TUE5MRa7xx0B%252B7vycrHhI2CzDo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The first picture has a separate tailpiece and bridge and the third picture has a wraparound bridge. All very odd to say the least[/url]

 

[JVsearch]

Interestingly I emailed tokai UK about the guitar and got a reply from a Bob Murdoch who stated "That was an LS160 from Japan 2 weeks ago with 2 PC back only 1 piece on LS230 and above"
Can this be right? It certainly doesn't sound right. I've replied pointing out the specs on the tokai UK website and also asked if there's any paperwork from tokai to prove it. Most odd....

If that is right - that could mean that a person has to go to 230 level when purchasing outside Japan, in the UK for example.

So send it back anyway and buy a 160 from Japan. Simple.

The catalogue is pretty clear on the specs.

 

[stratlt]

Interestingly I emailed tokai UK about the guitar and got a reply from a Bob Murdoch who stated "That was an LS160 from Japan 2 weeks ago with 2 PC back only 1 piece on LS230 and above"
Can this be right? It certainly doesn't sound right. I've replied pointing out the specs on the tokai UK website and also asked if there's any paperwork from tokai to prove it. Most odd....

If that is right - that could mean that a person has to go to 230 level when purchasing outside Japan, in the UK for example.

So send it back anyway and buy a 160 from Japan. Simple.

The catalogue is pretty clear on the specs.

+1. Only HLS series premium Tokai guitars has 2 piece mahogany back. Those guitars are made for Hibiki, one of retailer in Japan under their specifications. Maybe UK distributor start to use similar specifications, but I'm not sure. Standard premium series gold top with P90 style pickups (LS165S) is with Mahogany One Piece Back .
According to UK web site premium Tokai with P90 style pickups is ULS160... But still - specification says that they come with Mahogany One Piece Back as well...
http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=74&category_id=14&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

 

[stratlt]

Interestingly I emailed tokai UK about the guitar and got a reply from a Bob Murdoch who stated "That was an LS160 from Japan 2 weeks ago with 2 PC back only 1 piece on LS230 and above"
Can this be right? It certainly doesn't sound right. I've replied pointing out the specs on the tokai UK website and also asked if there's any paperwork from tokai to prove it. Most odd....

If that is right - that could mean that a person has to go to 230 level when purchasing outside Japan, in the UK for example.

So send it back anyway and buy a 160 from Japan. Simple.

The catalogue is pretty clear on the specs.

+1. Only HLS series premium Tokai guitars has 2 piece mahogany back. Those guitars are made for Hibiki, one of retailer in Japan under their specifications. Maybe UK distributor start to use similar specifications, but I'm not sure. Standard premium series gold top with P90 style pickups (LS165S) is with Mahogany One Piece Back .
According to UK web site premium Tokai with P90 style pickups is ULS160... But still - specification says that they come with Mahogany One Piece Back as well...
http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=74&category_id=14&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

 

[luis]

Pots are Goldo supplied (good MIJ quality) sold by Thonman cyberstore, not original.These usually measure over 500K (550 K and 600K several), so if somene replaced original ones,they should be MIJ thread(direct replacement). Caps are not original as pointed above (original ones are small green below LS-150 Love Rocks).
It seems to have LS-160s with two pieces back.

 

[Johny642000]

I have a LS145s (now 165s) and all the premium series guitars have a 1 piece back apart from the afore-mentioned HLS guitars for Hibiki.

There have been special runs of 54 Goldtops with the wrap over bridge (both in the UK and I think the German distributor also had a run) and they were lower spec and 2-piece backs...

I would say this guitar is one of those - just an opinion...

I also feel pretty sure Marcus had one of these from the German distributor as well...maybe he'll chime in...

Best wishes,

John.

 

[marcusnieman]

There have been special runs of 54 Goldtops with the wrap over bridge (both in the UK and I think the German distributor also had a run) and they were lower spec and 2-piece backs...

I would say this guitar is one of those - just an opinion...

I also feel pretty sure Marcus had one of these from the German distributor as well...maybe he'll chime in...

Best wishes,

John.

Yup.. here's mine. Three piece back... special run from the German distributor before they went into production on these. Great guitar:

 

[JVsearch]

There have been special runs of 54 Goldtops with the wrap over bridge (both in the UK and I think the German distributor also had a run) and they were lower spec and 2-piece backs...

I would say this guitar is one of those - just an opinion...

I also feel pretty sure Marcus had one of these from the German distributor as well...maybe he'll chime in...

Best wishes,

John.

Yup.. here's mine. Three piece back... special run from the German distributor before they went into production on these...

Yes, those lower spec 54 type LPs are known to exist, but the important question is, did you think you were buying a 160 or 90 level guitar?

That has a big effect on how much $$ someone would be prepared to pay.

 

[marcusnieman]

Naw... I knew what I was getting. Again, mine was the prototype before they went into production on them. The 160 didn't exist when I bought it. Didn't cost near as much as the 160 and I'm perfectly happy with it - playability, attention to detail and tone.

 

[JVsearch]

Naw... I knew what I was getting. Again, mine was the prototype before they went into production on them. The 160 didn't exist when I bought it. Didn't cost near as much as the 160 and I'm perfectly happy with it - playability, attention to detail and tone.

Yeah definitely, not trying to take anything away from your guitar or any of the lower models.

Just illuminating the fact that when someone buys a 160 level guitar they have most likely put down 160 level money, but had they known it was a lower model they would not have entered into the transaction.

 

[marcusnieman]

I agree completely :wink:

 

[Chesterreddragon]

Hi again - well the final conclusion from you all (and as eventually confirmed by Tokai UK), is that it is one of the 54 replicas (2 piece back) and not an ls160s as advertised. The seller seemed somewhat confused but not deliberately dishonest; however some of the pictures he posted were not of the actual guitar for sale. I asked lots of questions before I bought it but he was adamant that it was an ls160 - the lesson is that there's always a risk in buying over the internet without actually holding the guitar in your hands first! This guy has ambitions of becoming a regular Tokai seller in the UK so I hope he's learnt something here and from the feedback I gave him and Tokai UK.

End result? Well I paid what would've been a cheap price for a ls160 and was a fair price for the guitar I actually got. And as it looks great, plays beautifully and sounds fabulous I decided to keep it. I really like a wraparound bridge and the neck p90 has the tone I've been looking for. I compared it against a Gibson Les Paul Custom 1956 goldtop at my local guitar shop that cost a LOT more and they felt and appeared very similar in quality. I may upgrade the caps and pots sometime but no rush as I like the way it sounds as it is.
So thanks to all for your replies, sorry it took me a while to write this post.