I Gave This Seller a NEGATIVE - What Would You Do?

[MIJvintage]

I received the below PM, from a fellow Tokai Forum member, concerning this thread.
Since we all have our opinions, I thought it would be interesting to have a different point of view, concerning the issue of warning others here, of suspect sellers.

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Hi,

Although I think that it should be included in the thread, I can see that you have little choice except leaving out the seller's details. It sounds to me like Ned's position on this is wrong. I would like to know who the dodgy seller was though, so I would appreciate details.

Thanks, & good luck.

M

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I wouldn't say that Ned's position on this is wrong; it is what it is.
I also believe the identity of the seller should be revealed.
I previously expressed this opinion to Ned concerning a different seller, and Ned disagreed, and after all, this is HIS forum so, we can all agree to disagree, and still get along.

I have received many requests to reveal the suspect seller, and I will supply the seller's identity via PM, or via email.

 

[JohnA]

I know I'll probably be slated for having a different opinion but I really don't think the seller set out to decieve anyone in this case. Firstly the auction title:

"1980' Greco Super Real Model EGF850 - Beat but Complete
Great Beater Stage Guitar or Rare Parts for Restoration"

He's not exactly talking the guitar up is he?

I can also see some shrinkage of the top in the sellers pic's, I agree it doesn't look as bad as it does in your pics, but it is fairly obvious.

Look on the bright side, you paid $675 for a guitar that I'm sure sounds and plays great.

I know it's upsetting when a deal doesn't work out how you would like but I don't think the seller should take all the blame here. He also says quite clearly "ALL SALES ARE FINAL SO ASK ALL QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING. " I think that puts some of the responsibility on the buyer.

I hope you don't think I'm having a go at you, I'm just giving my opinion which is what you were asking in the thread title :wink: IMO the seller didn't deserve a negative for this one, but I also agree it was pretty childish of him to leave you one.

 

[MIJvintage]

I know I'll probably be slated for having a different opinion but I really don't think the seller set out to decieve anyone in this case. Firstly the auction title:

"1980' Greco Super Real Model EGF850 - Beat but Complete
Great Beater Stage Guitar or Rare Parts for Restoration"

He's not exactly talking the guitar up is he?

I can also see some shrinkage of the top in the sellers pic's, I agree it doesn't look as bad as it does in your pics, but it is fairly obvious.

Look on the bright side, you paid $675 for a guitar that I'm sure sounds and plays great.

I know it's upsetting when a deal doesn't work out how you would like but I don't think the seller should take all the blame here. He also says quite clearly "ALL SALES ARE FINAL SO ASK ALL QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING. " I think that puts some of the responsibility on the buyer.

I hope you don't think I'm having a go at you, I'm just giving my opinion which is what you were asking in the thread title :wink: IMO the seller didn't deserve a negative for this one, but I also agree it was pretty childish of him to leave you one.

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I certainly am not going to slag you for having an opposing opinion, yet I do take exception to your observations, concerning the listing.

As you state, the seller is not "talking up the guitar" by any means, YET the seller's photos do not clearly demonstrate any issue with the laminate shrinkage.
Now, if I were looking for laminate shrinkage on the guitar, I may have been able to convince myself that I saw evidence of such in the listing photos BUT I did not.

As I previously pointed out, the seller's description in his listing.
QUOTE: "the biggest cosmetic issue is the two large scratches on the top"

OK, let's look at the seller's statement, and the facts of the condition of the guitar.
The seller claims, "the biggest cosmetic issue is the two large scratches on the top", which are roughly 1/128th of an inch into the clearcoat.
The seller has photos of the two scratches, which are very clear, and evident, no doubt.

What is NOT so clear, and evident in the seller's photos, is the condition of the laminate top, the issue of it's shrinkage, and there is NO verbal acknowledgement by the seller, of the laminate's condition of shrinkage.

Sure, I was making a purchase of an item that I KNEW had an issues of scratches into the finish, scratches which I personally can repair, refinish, and make them virtually invisible.

I have absolutely NO IDEA how to repair laminate shrinkage.
If I would have known that the item was in need of laminate shrinkage repairs, then I would not have purchased the item, because again, I do NOT have the skill set to repair this type of issue.

When a seller states, "the biggest cosmetic issue is the two large scratches on the top", YET willingly lies about a bigger, larger issue, I sincerely do not believe the onus is on me.

As I stated before, this is an issue of honesty, or lack thereof, that has turned into a learning situation, and I decided to allow others to reflect on my experience, and to make their own judgments, which you have done.

I am not going to slag you for that; we disagree but I still respect someone that disagrees with me, you included.

 

[Old Puppy]

Wow, the guitar is pretty beat up and I would not be happy with that surprise either. You paid pretty good money for it I think.

I bet my son would love it though, he could really use a beater guitar so mine would be safe. If you don't like it, maybe we could give it a good home?

 

[MIJvintage]

Wow, the guitar is pretty beat up and I would not be happy with that surprise either. You paid pretty good money for it I think.

I bet my son would love it though, he could really use a beater guitar so mine would be safe. If you don't like it, maybe we could give it a good home?

I have had offers on the guitar.

I have estimates for the costs of repairs to the laminate, which run into the 2 to 3 bill range.
The seller will be getting the bill for this, in my PayPal claim.
I am quite confident the seller will balk, no surprise here.............

I possibly will 'experiment' with my luthiery skills, expand on them, hopefully not screw this thing up, and come up with a viable approach to repair this POS.

It will take an exstensive amount of time, patience, and a new learning curve on my part but it is possible that it could turn into lemonaide..........

.............only time will tell..................

 

[Anonymous]

Obviously I am missing something important.

My take is very simple: if a seller does not stand up to what he/she is selling then the buyer (you or me) takes the risk and in exchange might get a really good price (or not). I lost and I won. That's ebay.

Because of a.m. I simply offer unconditional right of return when I sell. It just makes sense. A few months ago I took back a vintage amp the buyer simply did not like. I even paid for both-way transport and I learned a lot because the buyer explained to me EXACTLY why he did not like the amp.

The cost from Austria to Germany and back was around ? 90.-- (a lot). But the information from the buyer was and is just absolutely outstanding value.

Cheers. Rupert

 

[2loudaudio]

Well...........to make a long story short, I left positive feedback on the guitar where the color was a bit off. Color is obviously subjective, and if it comes down to a judgement call I think you give the other party the benefit of the doubt. All other aspects of the trade went well, and seller went out of their way on a superb packing job. In my view, I think you have to reserve your negative feedback for the times where it's clear cut that you were just ripped off. Like the phase switch....

Too bad Ebay doesn't provide you with at least twice as much space for negative feedback as they give you for positive feedback. But I think if you work at it you can fit a lot of vitriol into that little line....only had to do it twice in about 80 guitar trades but it's there for a purpose and I ALWAYS check seller feedback now carefully before I bid.

Maybe somebody should start a new link on Ebay horror stories. Like the guitar that was just as described......except for the serial number being sanded off. Hot goods? Smokin! Luckily the seller took it back nooooo question for a full refund when I pointed out that I didn't want to have to report it to my local authorities...

 

[JohnA]

I am not going to slag you for that; we disagree but I still respect someone that disagrees with me, you included.

Glad we can have a difference of opinion without a falling out

I think your best approach would be to sell the guitar on, even if you lose $100 or so, I think you will never really be happy with the guitar that has caused you so much grief.

I think ebay should take more responsibility in cases like this, they really don't seem to care as long as they are making money.

 

[pedalGEEK]

Hi All, a new poster, but I have lurked a bit. It's easy to find out Rich's bad seller. Just go to Rich's eBay page and look at the feedback he's left for others--it's not too far down the list.

I too had a less than great experience with this seller. I bought a Burny Super Grade he listed at 9 lbs and it is actually 10 lbs. I ended up not leaving any FB at all, not wanting to risk a retaliatory negative.

 

[MIJvintage]

Hi All, a new poster, but I have lurked a bit. It's easy to find out Rich's bad seller. Just go to Rich's eBay page and look at the feedback he's left for others--it's not too far down the list.

I too had a less than great experience with this seller. I bought a Burny Super Grade he listed at 9 lbs and it is actually 10 lbs. I ended up not leaving any FB at all, not wanting to risk a retaliatory negative.

I had the same experience with more than one seller, in which the sellers claimed certain weights, yet the guitars were all well OVER a pound heavier than cliamed.
In one case, I also did not leave the seller a feedback, and also never again purchased from the seller.

Many potential buyers could care less what a guitar weighs.
Conversely, many potential buyers want to know an accurate weight for a guitar, BEFORE they commit to a purchase.
An accurate weight should vary NO more than +/- 4 oz., maximum.

Any serious seller should have a calibrated digital scale at their disposal 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Any serious seller should have a calibrated digital scale at their disposal 8)

Any dealer maybe - but there are plenty of us on here who sell guitars now and then, and are perfectly serious when we do. And honest too. But digital scales? :roll:

Anyway, it's only those strange Les Paul things where weight is an issue. I have never seen a Strat or Tele ad where the weight is quoted, or even asked by a potential buyer. The most you would get is a comment that the weight is on the light side or the heavy side. That's probably because Leo's guitars (1970s models excluded) are generally a sensible weight, whereas Les's guitars are not! :wink:

Mike

 

[MIJvintage]

Any serious seller should have a calibrated digital scale at their disposal 8)

Any dealer maybe - but there are plenty of us on here who sell guitars now and then, and are perfectly serious when we do. And honest too. But digital scales? :roll:

Anyway, it's only those strange Les Paul things where weight is an issue. I have never seen a Strat or Tele ad where the weight is quoted, or even asked by a potential buyer. The most you would get is a comment that the weight is on the light side or the heavy side. That's probably because Leo's guitars (1970s models excluded) are generally a sensible weight, whereas Les's guitars are not! :wink:

Mike

The term 'serious' is a relative term; it is subjective.

The actual weight of a guitar is but one of many attributes of any given instrument, and as earlier stated; many could care less, and yet just as many others want to know an accurate weight.

I am also confident that many buyers could care less about the resonance, playability, originality, etc. of any given instrument, yet these are all very important attributes, IMO.

Having access to a very accurate digital scale doesn't mean I have to own one, and I don't but I want to know as much about every guitar that I have; that's just me............