First REAL proof that Edwards' are actually MIJ

[leadguitar_323]

I think the 60% thing is worked out on the amount of parts used to make the guitar, it comes to Japan as a 1 piece then has 6 machine heads, 4 pots, 2 pickups , 1 switch, 1 jack, 1 bridge and 1 tailpiece added. All smoke and mirrors just like the "scientific" whaling........

Mick

 

[Anonymous]

I reckon it's a con, whatever the rules allow them to claim. Can I assume that a modern MIJ Tokai is 100% made in Japan?

 

[JohnA]

I realy don't think it's a big deal as long as the end result is not suffering in quality. Edwards guitars, the ones I've played at least, are top-knotch!

As for Tokai, it wouldn't be a huge supprise if now or in the near future some of the mij guitars had some part of the production done in China.

 

[Anonymous]

As for Tokai, it wouldn't be a huge supprise if now or in the near future some of the mij guitars had some part of the production done in China.

If they do that, it will be the beginning of the end for Tokai. MIJ should mean MIJ. If it doesn't, there's no point in buying Japanese. Sure, Korean & Chinese stuff continues to improve, but if people buy Japanese, it's because they want a guitar MADE in Japan, not just partially assembled there.

Where's the logic is spending decades building up a reputation for quality, & then selling out? Japanese stuff used to have a reputation for being cheap, not as good as the "real thing". Now that so many people realise that was wrong, they're changing the meaning of "Japanese" so that now nobody know what it means!

A crazy commercial decision, IMHO, & one that the Japanese will live to regret.

 

[JohnA]

I can only speak for myself, but knowing what I now know about ESP's production would not influence my decision to buy an Edwards guitar. I think at the lower end of the scale, i.e. LS85F standards the Edwards guitars are better than the Tokai equivalent, and I would pick an eddie over a tokai given a direct choice.

 

[japanstrat]

Seems like Assembled in Japan is similar to Made in Japan.

At http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=327926

"Hi, This is my first post here. I am not here to complain about a Fujitsu. My Fujitsu Lifebook C2220 is great and has been since I bought it 5 years ago. I even dropped it on concrete on the way back from Japan and it still works like a charm.

I just have one thing to point out. My Fujitsu like many others here says on the label that it is made in Japan. It is one of the reason why I bought it even though it weighs a ton. The fact is it is assembled in Japan but not "made in Japan". I opened my notebook and found the motherboard is made in Vietnam. My RAM chipset is made in Korea and my HDD is made in Malaysia. And other parts are made in China. Kind of a disapointment, but i still love my Lifebook."

 

[20 century boy]

I can only speak for myself, but knowing what I now know about ESP's production would not influence my decision to buy an Edwards guitar. I think at the lower end of the scale, i.e. LS85F standards the Edwards guitars are better than the Tokai equivalent, and I would pick an eddie over a tokai given a direct choice.

I prefer the woods in the tokai, and I think Tokai finish is better when properly done but Edwards are very nice guitars for the price if you're OK with the nitro coating and the SD pickup. Wherever it's made, it's nice gear.

 

[Dave_Mc]

If they do that, it will be the beginning of the end for Tokai. MIJ should mean MIJ. If it doesn't, there's no point in buying Japanese. Sure, Korean & Chinese stuff continues to improve, but if people buy Japanese, it's because they want a guitar MADE in Japan, not just partially assembled there.

Where's the logic is spending decades building up a reputation for quality, & then selling out? Japanese stuff used to have a reputation for being cheap, not as good as the "real thing". Now that so many people realise that was wrong, they're changing the meaning of "Japanese" so that now nobody know what it means!

A crazy commercial decision, IMHO, & one that the Japanese will live to regret.

agreed.

I can only speak for myself, but knowing what I now know about ESP's production would not influence my decision to buy an Edwards guitar. I think at the lower end of the scale, i.e. LS85F standards the Edwards guitars are better than the Tokai equivalent, and I would pick an eddie over a tokai given a direct choice.

also agreed, based on the few I've tried.

 

[JVsearch]

Tokai should not move any part of the production process for proper Tokai guitars out of Japan because they already have a cheaper range of guitars that are made off shore.

They should concentrate on building up the cheaper lines with greater separation from Tokai Japan, and then maybe go limited and expensive with Tokai Japan. Gibson Historic anybody? The flagship product helps to sell loads of cheaper stuff without hurting the reputation of the original. It doesn't always work as well as expected though!

It will make Tokai Japan guitars expensive, but at least they'll still be true and available for purchase. I'd prefer this to the situation with Edwards where they have decided that the market will not contain an Edwards guitar that is made in Japan. I now don't have the option of buying a MIJ Edwards even if I am prepared to pay the price.

It's like a guitar stand that I recently bought - the guy tells me no everything like that is made in China now, and I say well it's cheap (and looks/feels cheap), but where's my choice of a better one if I'm happy to pay more? In the end I bought a 2nd hand Quiklok for the same money, that he had sitting around. I simply do not trust Chinese anything near guitar finishes. Some business in China was ok with putting too much of some substance into milk without researching the effects, so I doubt there'd be a problem with putting any old thing into guitar items.

From what I've been told, the Chinese will do anything to fill an order rather than saying there'll be a delay or something. Whilst this is admirable, it shouldn't come at the cost of product safety or quality.

I know I sound like an old whinger, but it's going take me a while to get over the milk thing, and the lead in the kids toys, and the stainless steel that rusts, and the jumpers that fall apart, and even the chocolate that leaves a waxy residue in your mouth pisses me off!

 

[leadguitar_323]

I know I sound like an old whinger

I agree 100% on what you are saying here, if its quality i will pay a bit more.
But where do you get quality stuff from when your market is flooded in crap..

Mick

 

[Anonymous]

Tokai should not move any part of the production process for proper Tokai guitars out of Japan because they already have a cheaper range of guitars that are made off shore.

They should concentrate on building up the cheaper lines with greater separation from Tokai Japan, and then maybe go limited and expensive with Tokai Japan. Gibson Historic anybody? The flagship product helps to sell loads of cheaper stuff without hurting the reputation of the original.

I agree 100%. Why squander such a good reputation as Tokai has?

 

[stratlt]

I received email from one company (oficial ESP distributor). They asked ESP about where Edwards guitars is made. Please find part of email from ESP office dated yesterday:

"It is just a rumor. Edwards are made in our factory in Japan. Their bodies are made at our factory in Sado Island, and are sent here to be assembled. Have you check Edwards before? If you check the quality of them, you can tell that right away. "

For me this question is closed, because Sado Island is part of Japan.

 

[bart]

Cool, now there are two versions of what ESP is saying. Although ESP saying China and ESP Distributor saying Japan. I think I'll believe ESP's answer until othwise.

 

[stratlt]

Cool, now there are two versions of what ESP is saying. Although ESP saying China and ESP Distributor saying Japan. I think I'll believe ESP's answer until othwise.

I have a copy of that email from ESP. I can't display it, because officially we can't sell Edwards branded guitars in our country. Email header shows all details of ESP representative person.

 

[bart]

Cool, now there are two versions of what ESP is saying. Although ESP saying China and ESP Distributor saying Japan. I think I'll believe ESP's answer until othwise.

I have a copy of that email from ESP. I can't display it, because officially we can't sell Edwards branded guitars in our country. Email header shows all details of ESP representative person.

Have you read TOKAI JOE's complete e-mail correspondance with ESP?

 

[japanstrat]

What I see here is what I see on forums all over the net.
The mixing up of Chinese cheap goods with Chinese quality goods all in one basket.
Is anyone seriously going to say a Apple MacBook or iPhone or iPod or any of the other high end consumer goods being made in China are cheap crap or garbage.
Yes there are cheap low quality items coming from China that are mostly not well known brands and are coming from Chinese managed factories.
You get what you pay for mostly.

Most consumers want the highest quality at the lowest prices so Apple has to get things made in China because all the PC manufacturers that Apple compete with went to China because consumers wanted low computer prices and the companies know that they can sell more computers at lower price points.

Lower wages and factory overheads = cheaper prices and China and other Asian countries offer this.

It's a bit late now to make everything in the west after western consumers and businesses sold out to Asia.

If Apple had the MacBook made in the USA then it would probably be 4 times the price if Apple could source the parts in the USA.

ESP has it's own factory in China and it can do what it wants there.
Just because ESP is in China (shock horror) it does not mean that the guitars made there are cheap crap or garbage.
ESP would just save some money on labour and factory overheads and this allows them to bring guitars into the marketplace at specific price points.

 

[stratlt]

Cool, now there are two versions of what ESP is saying. Although ESP saying China and ESP Distributor saying Japan. I think I'll believe ESP's answer until othwise.

I have a copy of that email from ESP. I can't display it, because officially we can't sell Edwards branded guitars in our country. Email header shows all details of ESP representative person.

Have you read TOKAI JOE's complete e-mail correspondance with ESP?

Yes, but i think that I may trust representative person from ESP head office. This answer is not from "some guys or customer support".

 

[TOKAI JOE]

Cool, now there are two versions of what ESP is saying. Although ESP saying China and ESP Distributor saying Japan. I think I'll believe ESP's answer until othwise.

I have a copy of that email from ESP. I can't display it, because officially we can't sell Edwards branded guitars in our country. Email header shows all details of ESP representative person.

8) 　please dont BS anymore please! tokai joe here again just
before leaving here soon but glad i could add a warning to ya.
i believe most everything you say here is a super BS, sorry and
you must be just super joking or have some funny guts.
i wouldnt do this even for a joke if i was you. so just say its a
joke now so that people will let you go. it was ok just so funny.

sado island is a small island of japan where only the farmers
and fishermen live. they have som there but no train and no airplane
coming from the mainland even they have a very small airport.
their main industry beside the fishing and farming are the tourlism
only. basically that kind of the island. a great nature there ofcourse!
anyways they are only a small island where nothing extra exists
so no way someone puts the factory there. only possible if its about
the fishes and vegitables! where did you find this super crazy idea
and how could you? its absolutelly super laughable as a joke
it even cant be a BS really. its like fender usa is building their factory
on the santa catalina island when no need or its forever useless.......
or maybe on the alcatraz island in SF or something......................
i leave the wiki about sado island here so enjoy reading if you
wanna. if you realized your joke/BS is way over the top you can
go away now and never need to come back. just dont come back
with a fake ESP email please saying its the official and whatever.
please man. dont make this any more difficult now please.
if you want some true infos then please ask ESP directly. they will
sure tell ya what is the truth. they did to me and to someone else
too after mine. anyways your post was sooooo funny it was really
something. .......good night! ...........j


:lol: ......mick!......more guys coming at us !!!!! never ends!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sado,_Niigata

http://www.visitsado.com/en/


8)

 

[TOKAI JOE]

What I see here is what I see on forums all over the net.
The mixing up of Chinese cheap goods with Chinese quality goods all in one basket.
Is anyone seriously going to say a Apple MacBook or iPhone or iPod or any of the other high end consumer goods being made in China are cheap crap or garbage.
Yes there are cheap low quality items coming from China that are mostly not well known brands and are coming from Chinese managed factories.
You get what you pay for mostly.

Most consumers want the highest quality at the lowest prices so Apple has to get things made in China because all the PC manufacturers that Apple compete with went to China because consumers wanted low computer prices and the companies know that they can sell more computers at lower price points.

Lower wages and factory overheads = cheaper prices and China and other Asian countries offer this.

It's a bit late now to make everything in the west after western consumers and businesses sold out to Asia.

If Apple had the MacBook made in the USA then it would probably be 4 times the price if Apple could source the parts in the USA.

ESP has it's own factory in China and it can do what it wants there.
Just because ESP is in China (shock horror) it does not mean that the guitars made there are cheap crap or garbage.
ESP would just save some money on labour and factory overheads and this allows them to bring guitars into the marketplace at specific price points.

8) you are very cool here mr.japanstrat........right on no doubt!
thanks! .....j





8)

 

[japanstrat]

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more.html