A Tokai Book

[Anonymous]

Iain, just been looking over the proof pages from the book you posted. The pics and layout look great, is there going to be any text accompanying the pics? I think a few details and maybe a paragraph about each guitar might be nice.

+1

 

[JohnA]

Great intro Andrew!! I agree with Mike, it's not that long, and it's inclusion, whether as a forward or split up in the main body, makes the book a lot more interesting as a reference manual rather than just a collection of pics.

I also agree, a description of the differences (maybe in table format) of the different model numbers would be a great addition.

Iain, I hope you don't see this as critisism, I think the book is a great idea and I definetely want one, but I think the inclusion of some of the ideas above would be an improvement, and maybe enough to go too the next level and approach a publisher?

 

[amunro]

Thanks for the feedback Mike.

I'm happy to look at how to chunk this down. However, that raises a question of design lay-out as I think the rest of the book is intended to be double-page spreads: how would several shorter pieces of text be incorporated? Let's debate with Iain and then I can get my virtual scissors out.

Great point on Silver Stars which I didn't know. I'll include that.

Also, I agree it would be good to lay out the differences between ST40, 50, 100 etc. I'm happy to write it up but can you, or someone provide the details. I know a little but I don't really have the depth of knowledge on this.

On the Fender/Tokai decal, I agree kind of. They are very similar but I don't think they are as mistakable as the original logos, and of course the new Tokai logo was used across the full range of guitars not just the copies of the 64-67 transition models. It's worth noting though, and I'll add something appropriate into the text.

 

[amunro]

I would be very cautious of this project growing into something huge and undeliverable but, of course, the other thing which users want is a guide to dating their guitars. I started to build a spreadsheet with the variations at one point but it is - as you all know better than me - a vast and complex science (art?). And then we start to get into the work which Peter mac started a few years ago (I'm not sure how that's progressing).

A personal failing is that I always want everything but I think we probably want to manage the scope of the project so that something gets delivered. Iain, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Anonymous]

Also, I agree it would be good to lay out the differences between ST40, 50, 100 etc. I'm happy to write it up but can you, or someone provide the details. I know a little but I don't really have the depth of knowledge on this.

This is the simplest summary I can manage:

ST40 - non-Kluson type tuners, ceramic pickups, 3 or maybe 4 piece body
ST50 - Kluson type tuners, alnico pickups, 3 piece body
ST60 - as ST50 with (arguably) better pickups, 2 piece body
ST80 - as ST60 but nitro finish
ST100 - as ST80 but possibly 1 piece body & probably gold plated hardware.

That applies to Goldies, but Springys were a little different, I believe. Maybe somebody else can do a similar list for Springys? The ST42 replaced the ST40 in the Springy line I think?

It's probably also worth noting that the (sensible) fret board stamp to indicate model number was replaced by the (stupid) paper sticker some time in 1980. And around 1981/82 (need to check this) the serial numbers on Springys changed from the type that indicated date of manufacture to a system that copied the Fender guitars Tokai were copying (i.e an L prefixed number on a copy of a '64 Strat). This was the time when accurate dating became difficult.

 

[JohnA]

Springys, much the same as Goldstars

ST40 - non-Kluson type tuners, ceramic pickups, 3 or maybe 4 piece body
ST50 - Kluson type tuners, 'U' stamped alnico pickups, 2 or 3 piece body
ST60 - as ST50 with (normally) 'E' stamped alnico pickups, pickups, 2 piece body Ash (Sen) on sunburst finishes
ST80 - as ST60 but nitro finish and normally a V neck
ST100 - as ST80 but possibly 1 piece body & probably gold plated hardware.

 

[Anonymous]

John, I thought the base level Springy was the ST42?

 

[iainblack]

Thanks for the comments chaps. Andrew, still to read the text, thanks for doing it so promptly (just waiting your photos). I will try the text in the intro page and see how it fits. i may be able to add a reference table and the contents page will be arranged in Springy's in ascending order (ST50 to ST100), Goldies (ST40 - ST80) and SS 38 and above.

I am hoping it will be a reference manual but I don't have the patience to wait until we get every detail. the main aim is that the photos cover all colours and then models and maple / rosewood variations.

Each page has 2 text boxes and for those who didn't read page 5 of the thread it will contain basic spec in this format:

Name (forum name): Iain Black (iainblack)
Location : Liverpool, UK
Guitar Model : Springy Sound ST 55
Colour code : MR Metallic Red
Pickups : U
Bridge Saddles : Final Prospec
Tuners : Tokai kluson

with space for a few comments about when and where it was bought etc. See Mirrorboys version he also sent.

I have about a third of the 28 guitars covered already so there will be at least 56 pages

 

[JohnA]

John, I thought the base level Springy was the ST42?

Not sure about that, I don't concern myself with such low-end models :wink:

 

[JohnA]

Thanks for the comments chaps. Andrew, still to read the text, thanks for doing it so promptly (just waiting your photos). I will try the text in the intro page and see how it fits. i may be able to add a reference table and the contents page will be arranged in Springy's in ascending order (ST50 to ST100), Goldies (ST40 - ST80) and SS 38 and above.

I am hoping it will be a reference manual but I don't have the patience to wait until we get every detail. the main aim is that the photos cover all colours and then models and maple / rosewood variations.

Each page has 2 text boxes and for those who didn't read page 5 of the thread it will contain basic spec in this format:

Name (forum name): Iain Black (iainblack)
Location : Liverpool, UK
Guitar Model : Springy Sound ST 55
Colour code : MR Metallic Red
Pickups : U
Bridge Saddles : Final Prospec
Tuners : Tokai kluson

with space for a few comments about when and where it was bought etc. See Mirrorboys version he also sent.

I have about a third of the 28 guitars covered already so there will be at least 56 pages

That sounds good to me Iain!!

 

[iainblack]

Ta. i forgot to mention that I only have one photo of the lime green block logo goldie. Anyone got one for inclusion?

 

[Anonymous]

Ta. i forgot to mention that I only have one photo of the lime green block logo goldie. Anyone got one for inclusion?

I have a JB45, but a Strat would fit better into this book, if you can get one.

 

[amunro]

Springys, much the same as Goldstars

ST40 - non-Kluson type tuners, ceramic pickups, 3 or maybe 4 piece body
ST50 - Kluson type tuners, 'U' stamped alnico pickups, 2 or 3 piece body
ST60 - as ST50 with (normally) 'E' stamped alnico pickups, pickups, 2 piece body Ash (Sen) on sunburst finishes
ST80 - as ST60 but nitro finish and normally a V neck
ST100 - as ST80 but possibly 1 piece body & probably gold plated hardware.

An open question, because I don't have any insight but does the ST80 normally have a V neck? I know mine has but I would have expected that to be a feature only of any ST80s (or others) which were replicas of the 57 Strat and I'd have thought a rosewood/3-ply type 60's Strat would have a C neck. Am I wrong?

 

[Anonymous]

An open question, because I don't have any insight but does the ST80 normally have a V neck? I know mine has but I would have expected that to be a feature only of any ST80s (or others) which were replicas of the 57 Strat and I'd have thought a rosewood/3-ply type 60's Strat would have a C neck. Am I wrong?

You are being logical - Tokai weren't. Most (as far I can tell) RW ST80s have a V neck. Mine does. Strange, wrong, but true. Since mine has a sen body, it is more like a 57 Strat with a RW cap board than it is like a '64 Strat. Like a freak early trial of rosewood at Fender in 1957. :lol:

I doubt if there are any other vintage replica Strats around that have a V neck with rosewood board except for Springy ST80s. I'm not clear what the situation is with Goldie ST80s - they seem even less common than the Springy ST80s, which is strange since Goldies generally are far more common.

 

[amunro]

You are being logical - Tokai weren't. Most (as far I can tell) RW ST80s have a V neck. Mine does. Strange, wrong, but true. Since mine has a sen body, it is more like a 57 Strat with a RW cap board than it is like a '64 Strat. Like a freak early trial of rosewood at Fender in 1957. :lol:

Wow! You've just described my perfect guitar. So now I know I need an ST80 with a rosewood board.

 

[amunro]

Springys, much the same as Goldstars

ST40 - non-Kluson type tuners, ceramic pickups, 3 or maybe 4 piece body
ST50 - Kluson type tuners, 'U' stamped alnico pickups, 2 or 3 piece body
ST60 - as ST50 with (normally) 'E' stamped alnico pickups, pickups, 2 piece body Ash (Sen) on sunburst finishes
ST80 - as ST60 but nitro finish and normally a V neck
ST100 - as ST80 but possibly 1 piece body & probably gold plated hardware.

Another thought. If we are including this analysis, we should also include a similar list for Silver Stars. Does anyone have this detail?

 

[amunro]

Name (forum name): Iain Black (iainblack)
Location : Liverpool, UK
Guitar Model : Springy Sound ST 55
Colour code : MR Metallic Red
Pickups : U
Bridge Saddles : Final Prospec
Tuners : Tokai kluson

And another thought. Should we also include "Year" as one of the standard fields? A lot of the debate above is about age and the change in specs over time; it would make sense to have the year for each example.

 

[Anonymous]

And another thought. Should we also include "Year" as one of the standard fields? A lot of the debate above is about age and the change in specs over time; it would make sense to have the year for each example.

That's fine until we get to 1984. There's no way of knowing whether a Goldie is from 84, 85, 86 or whatever, as far as I know. We tend to assume they're all from 84 or 85, but is anyone sure what actually changed after 1985? Did anything change?

But for the earlier stuff, yes good idea.

 

[JohnA]

An open question, because I don't have any insight but does the ST80 normally have a V neck? I know mine has but I would have expected that to be a feature only of any ST80s (or others) which were replicas of the 57 Strat and I'd have thought a rosewood/3-ply type 60's Strat would have a C neck. Am I wrong?

You are being logical - Tokai weren't. Most (as far I can tell) RW ST80s have a V neck. Mine does. Strange, wrong, but true. Since mine has a sen body, it is more like a 57 Strat with a RW cap board than it is like a '64 Strat. Like a freak early trial of rosewood at Fender in 1957. :lol:

I doubt if there are any other vintage replica Strats around that have a V neck with rosewood board except for Springy ST80s. I'm not clear what the situation is with Goldie ST80s - they seem even less common than the Springy ST80s, which is strange since Goldies generally are far more common.

Just to be picky wouldn't a sen body make it more like a '54? All of the St80's I've played have had V necks, rosewood & maple boards, but apparently there are a few C profiles out there, possibly special orders??

 

[amunro]

I've just updated the draft in light of feedback received and the update is in the same place: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx.

I have included a table with the Springy/Goldstar models but (as above) think we also need a similar table for Silver Stars to complete the picture.

As before, let me know what you think.

regards