A Tokai Book

[Anonymous]

Just to be picky wouldn't a sen body make it more like a '54?

As soon as I posted that I remembered that they stopped using ash on all except blonde Strats in 56, & if the V neck started in 57 there isn't really an analogy that works!

 

[JohnA]

Andrrew, are the dates correct? Reborns in '76 & springys in '78? I thought it was 78-79? May well be wrong though

 

[JohnA]

Just to be picky wouldn't a sen body make it more like a '54?

As soon as I posted that I remembered that they stopped using ash on all except blonde Strats in 56, & if the V neck started in 57 there isn't really an analogy that works!

So the 'best' features of a '54 '57 and '64 all rolled in to one 'super strat' for me they can keep the RW board, but the V neck & ash body is definitely my preferred combo

 

[Anonymous]

I've just updated the draft in light of feedback received and the update is in the same place: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx.

I have included a table with the Springy/Goldstar models but (as above) think we also need a similar table for Silver Stars to complete the picture.

As before, let me know what you think.

regards

Most of what you need for the SSs is in this current thread

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15377

by a stroke of good fortune!

Very good article. Can I suggest two corrections? In the table, it might help to mention that the bodies are alder. Many MIJ Fenders used basswood, so I think the distinction is relevant. You have already mentioned that the higher models use Sen. Also, if you describe the ST80 as being like the ST60 (not ST50), it will confirm that an 80 should have Es and a 2 piece body.

Also, does this sentence work?

"Introduced in 1954, the Fender Stratocaster remains, over fifty years later, the archetypal electric guitar; a true design classic in which every sensuous curve serves a practical, playing purpose yet sums to a living shape of immense grace and beauty."

It's the word "sums" that doesn't fit for me - or am I just reading it wrong? :-?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrrew, are the dates correct? Reborns in '76 & springys in '78? I thought it was 78-79? May well be wrong though

The first Springys appeared in 77, with the narrow neck plate. Not sure about Reborns.

 

[marcusnieman]

Andrrew, are the dates correct? Reborns in '76 & springys in '78? I thought it was 78-79? May well be wrong though

The first Springys appeared in 77, with the narrow neck plate. Not sure about Reborns.

If I'm not mistaken, the first Springy's showed up in 78 with the narrow neck plate.

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi guys,
I thought Reborns were the same year - 77-78 along with the Springy.

Just a couple of things to consider for the Springy -
Ash body + V neck = 1954-55
Alder body / V neck = 1956-57
Alder body / U neck = 1958 -59
Alder body - RW slab = 1959-62
Alder body - RW thin = 1963-64 - 'L' series
These 5 variations were the core of all Springy production from 1979 on.
Prior to that all models ( even the ST-42) had Ash bodies.
I have sent some history pages to togps for his website www.tokaiguitar.de
These pages are the express property of Gottfreid, but well worth a read.
regards
Peter Mac

 

[Anonymous]

Just a couple of things to consider for the Springy -
Ash body + V neck = 1954-55
Alder body / V neck = 1956-57
Alder body / U neck = 1958 -59
Alder body - RW slab = 1959-62
Alder body - RW thin = 1963-64 - 'L' series
These 5 variations were the core of all Springy production from 1979 on.
Prior to that all models ( even the ST-42) had Ash bodies.

Peter,

Are you suggesting that an ash body & V neck is a feature of a 1954/55 Strat? I'm afraid you're wrong in that case, the V neck was an anomaly that crept in around 1957 - Andrew covers this in his article - there is a suggestion that it was an error at Fender. As for ash, Fender used it on most Strats till '56, then only on see-through blonde finishes after 1956.

Also, I don't really understand what you mean by:

Alder body - RW thin = 1963-64 - 'L' series

That may be roughly what Fender produced (except for blonde Strats, which were ash, & also the cap board (1st version) started in 1962), but Tokai's version often uses ash/sen - as in a typical RW board ST80.

I'm not really sure that your table above really helps - we know roughly what Tokai were copying, & we know the details they got wrong. What we need is accurate tables of the specs that Tokai used on their guitars to help people to identify them.

 

[JohnA]

I have sent some history pages to togps for his website www.tokaiguitar.de
These pages are the express property of Gottfreid, but well worth a read.
regards
Peter Mac

Peter, the info on www.tokaiguitar.de is great, but there are definetely a few 'discussion points' and a few gaps. Is there any plans to post this info here on the registry so we can hopefully add anything new that comes to light, or maybe include links to the registry database so we can see examples of the models discussed?

 

[iainblack]

guys, great debate but I am not prepared to wait for a definitive version of what Tokai did. Is it really worth debating what Fender did when the book is abouit Tokai strats even though they are trying to copy the spec. The Reborn debate is also irrelevant as this book is about strat - someone else can tackle that book.

Lets just describe what we have in the pictures and if we can summarise the known knowns and state that there may be some known unknows and possibly unknown unknowns then we can get the f'in book printed. This forum has been going for donkey's years and we still do not have definitive specs so I am not going to try. That's the beauty fo the forum for discussion - the book may help further the discussion by collecting and comparing.

Rant mode now off!

 

[Anonymous]

guys, great debate but I am not prepared to wait for a definitive version of what Tokai did. Is it really worth debating what Fender did when the book is abouit Tokai strats even though they are trying to copy the spec. The Reborn debate is also irrelevant as this book is about strat - someone else can tackle that book

The Reborn debate is relevant in the sense that Andrew mentions it in his foreword, so it would help to get the date correct. I agree about the relevance of the Fender 50s details though, what Andrew wanted was details of the various Silver Stars, similar to the details he has already complied for the Springys & Goldies.

 

[Peter Mac]

hey guys
The list was actually based on the Fender features - not the Tokai - as a guideline to the years Tokai replicated.
eg '58 Alder body / U neck = ST-50 ; '54 Ash body / V neck = ST-80
I am aware of the Fender V-neck debate but for whatever reason it happened, it is widely accepted that 54-57 Strats do have V-necks.
Rosewood boards from 59-62 tended to be a slab board - quite a thick piece of rosewood compared to the maple - and I have only seen 2 models with it = ST-70 and AST-62.
All other Rosewood models ST-42 ~ ST-100 have a thin rosewood veneer on the maple neck, a feature of '63-64 Strats whose serial numbers started with L.
Tokai's most accurate Fender replicas were indeed the 1982 ST series as the serial numbers were matched to the construction features of the Fender years. '54-57 = 4 digits ; '58-62 = 5 digits ; '63-64 = L+5 digits.
regards
Peter Mac

 

[amunro]

Hi All, version 3 of the Intro is now up on my page for feedback:

http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

Mike, you were right about the opening line - i wasn't happy with it and your comment convinced me to re-write.

I have added in the feedback from above and extended the Springy/Goldstar table.

Still to do is the Silver Star table which I will get to this weekend.

Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

Hi All, version 3 of the Intro is now up on my page for feedback:

http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

It works for me. Very good. 8)

I can find one letter missing - that's all. In this sentence towards the end:

In 1980, the model number indicator changed from being two digits (e.g. ?80?) stamped into the wood of the fret-board, just above the top (21st) fret, to being a black, oval sticker with silver digits place on the flat back of the neck where it joins the body.


you have omitted the last "d" from "placed". It can't be bad when that's the only typo in the whole article!

I like the table - it's a good compromise between being informative & being succinct - you can't include everything,

Is this where we have the debate about whether or not E pickups were made by Dimarzio?

:roll:

 

[iainblack]

NO!

 

[JohnA]

NO!

OK what about the U's then? :wink:

It would be nice to get a forensic analysis of the basplate material and include it in appendix J, just after the section 'lumber basics'

 

[Peter Mac]

What about the sonic varitions between cross-cut and quarter-sawn mahogany on the LesPaul/Love Rocks ?

 

[JohnA]

What about the sonic varitions between cross-cut and quarter-sawn mahogany on the LesPaul/Love Rocks ?

I think MIJvintage is already planning a full book on the subject :wink:

 

[MIJvintage]

What about the sonic varitions between cross-cut and quarter-sawn mahogany on the LesPaul/Love Rocks ?

http://www.xigre.com/articles/music/guitars/20070530-Weird_guitar_Damien_Death_Cross.jpg
the "cross-cut" example would be for one of those death metal bands :lol: ....................

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNsLyQGSqIg