1982 Love Rock LS100

[ScottA]

OK, boys and girls. Here it is, the initial lowdown on the LS100 purchased from T. Kurosawa & Co, Ochanomizu, Tokyo, Japan for ?148,000 (~$1350 US).

1982, serial number 2013145, ?100? sticker intact.

Dimarzio pick-up?s, One piece mahogany back.

Now for the controversial part. I think it is a solid flamed maple top. 1) The guys in the store told me so (OK, I can hear you snickering, but they did seem pretty legit. I also had good English-to-Japanese translation going on and they knew exactly what I was asking. In fact, the guy on the floor said "hold on, let me check", and went back to ask the technician who was doing repairs in the back). 2) It?s got lots of movement. Don?t you have to have thickness to get movement in the flame? I wouldn't think thin laminates would tend to dance that much. 3) A clearly continuous seam through the entire top. And 4), flame visible in the bulk of the top. Note the picture with the pickguard removed, you can clearly see the flame continue from the top through the body. You also see what looks like a thin layer on the top but I think this is just the transition from the router to where they knocked the edge down a little in a finishing process (I really do, I don?t think this is wishful thinking here!). Note that you don?t see the apparent thin layer in other views, and in fact other views show no trace of a thin layer.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=4ogncvq.b6heuibe&x=0&y=9tvizn

Sorry, I'm too tired to figure out how to get pictures in here directly. I'm going on 28 hours straight now. Click "view photos without logging in."

 

[hans-j?rgen]

Sorry, I'm too tired to figure out how to get pictures in here directly.

Very strange, it seems that the normal method (including the URL of the photo within the IMG tags in the forum editor) doesn't work or only sometimes, probably because the Kodak Gallery wants me to pay for downloading and saving them or maybe because I'm not a member there. :-?

And congratulations for that beauty! 8)

 

[hans-j?rgen]

2) It’s got lots of movement. Don’t you have to have thickness to get movement in the flame? I wouldn't think thin laminates would tend to dance that much.

No, my 1984 LS60 veneer top moves as much as my 1981 LS120 solid top. Only photo flames (or quilted) don't move.

By the way, that Kodak Gallery gets on my nerves, it doesn't play the next pictures, so I can't comment on the rest of your questions.

 

[hans-j?rgen]

4) flame visible in the bulk of the top. Note the picture with the pickguard removed, you can clearly see the flame continue from the top through the body.

OK, at the small left and right sides of the pickup cavity (not at the larger front or rear) the flames sometimes continue in the wood below the top, and I agree that it looks that way in your guitar, too.

You also see what looks like a thin layer on the top but I think this is just the transition from the router to where they knocked the edge down a little in a finishing process (I really do, I don’t think this is wishful thinking here!). Note that you don’t see the apparent thin layer in other views, and in fact other views show no trace of a thin layer.

It could also be that there is no colored finish on the edge, as if they wiped or sanded it off. In fact it also looks that way in the upper corner of the cavity which I've never seen before. By the way, the pictures of the cavity you mailed me were a bit off focus, at least the one where you can usually see the graining of the annual rings below the bridge. So it's hard to tell if these continue up on the top parallel to the strings or not.

 

[ochay]

That's a KILLER FlameTOP- The pic of the bridge cavity tells it all !!
The Flame is Bitchen-

 

[bolero]

nice gtr!!



hard to tell, but it does look like the grain lines match up to the top, in that 1 pic of the cavity

 

[ScottA]

Thanks for the input all.

I'm pretty sure it's solid at this point. It's difficult to photograph, but by eye you can see a lot of continuity between the bulk and the top, and really no discontinuity.

I played it at rehearsal on Saturday and it rocked pretty good. It is on the heavy side. I'm afraid to weigh it at the risk of being disappointed. It sustains like crazy, though. I think it is my best sustaining Paul (including the Gibby's). So maybe the weight doesn't matter. Good tone, good sustain. But wait, there's that perception thing in the way again.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it! That's what counts.

 

[LoveRocksRule]

well... im not sure but by the look of some of them pics... and according to this info here http://www.tokairegistry.com/tokai-info/tokai-gibson-models.html

your ls100 is infact a laminated flame top not a solid flame maple...

if u scroll down on that page... there is a chart with all the different love rock models... and it tells u all their specs...


heres what it says for the ls100..

* Body: Flamed laminated maple top; Mahogany back
* Neck: Mahogany-set neck
* Fingerboard: Rosewood
* Pickupsimarzio PAF



and on 2 of the pics shown u can also clearly see the laminate top....

not that this matters anyway... its still a killer lookin guitar... i myself have an ls75q which is a laminate quilt top... the store where i got it from had installed seymour duncan seth lover pups in it.... and its the best sounding les paul i've played... even better than some gibsons i've played!!!

 

[shuie]

Beautiful guitar. Is that really a solid top? If so, it rivals the LS320s Ive seen pictures of.

 

[ochay]

LoveRockrule :

The chart you are quoting doesn't apply to his guitar-


His top has the center seams matching as seen in the bridge p-up cavity- every laminated les paul I've had >>> was real easy to spot when you open up the pickup cavities.

 

[ScottA]

It really does look solid.

I know the features list doesn't support a solid top but there does seem to be some variability in the spec's....

Anyway, it's on the heavy side so my rationalization is: they thought it was a little heavy for a "100" so they went ahead and put on a solid top!

 

[Ducati]

It's a very nice guitar, but that's not solid maple.

It's hard to be objective when it's your (newly purchased) guitar, cause everyone wants to believe they have something special and exclusive, but that does not have the look of a real slab o' curly maple.

 

[ScottA]

It's a very nice guitar, but that's not solid maple.

It's hard to be objective when it's your (newly purchased) guitar, cause everyone wants to believe they have something special and exclusive, but that does not have the look of a real slab o' curly maple.

On the contrary, I'm trying to be quite objective about this.

I just haven't seen any complete, definitive info on how to determine this stuff. You know what they say about opinions...everybody's got one.

There have been some pretty intense discussions on this forum in the past, and based on the info in those, it seems to me that it is at least likely that this is a solid top. Especially the continuity of the center seam and the graining on the top. Again it is hard to see in the pics, but by eye I cannot identify any discontinuity between the "supposed" veneer and the bulk of the top. The flame continues into the bulk of the top (where it can be followed), and there are also multiple hairline cracks running along grain lines that are continuous through the bulk of the top.

You say "that doesn't have the look of a real slab o' curly maple". I don't think I agree with that. My R9 f'in better be a solid top!! And you don't see anything real curly in the cross section of that top either. And it's pretty darn flamey.

H-J posted a picture of his LS120 pickup cavity a while back (and I think the implication was that it was a solid top):

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3920&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=cavity+veneer&start=15

...which looks quite a bit like picture 6 in my gallery. In fact if you look closely at picture 6, you can see clearly that the two piece part is bookmatched. There are grain lines running roughly at 45 degree angles to the center seam (angled both up and down) on both sides. Basically there is a "v" pointing up and also one pointing down where the two pieces meet at the center seam. Why book match the two piece top under a veneer? In fact my picture 6 looks a lot more book matched than H-J's post.

Now, I'm not a luthier and I'm no expert at wood grain interpretation, but my observations support the solid top.

Can anyone supply some better documentation to answer these questions and provide some guidance to others trying to make these determinations? I'd like to see a picture of a veneer top with guidlines of what to look for, and also picture of an undisputed solid top for comparison.

 

[ochay]

scotta,
You dont have to
be a luthier or a expert at wood grain interpretation, the clear pics show the that the center seams align you just have to have better eyesight than Blind Mellon Chitlin.
Whynot post a good pic of the center seam of the neck pickup cavity



HEY ????

 

[Spleen]

In my extremely amateurish opinion I think it's fairly obvious that you have a 100% solid top, no veneer. You can see the grain of the wood from the side and the top and they match. The 45 degree angle lines in the pickup cavity exactly match the lines on the top. End of story as far as I'm concerned. I'm interested in why someone would think that it isn't solid.

I just bought an '82 Greco with a solid flamed top and my pickup cavity looks very similar.

I thought that I had a solid flame top on my Dean Evo Special, but after seeing the real thing realize it's a veneer with regular maple underneath. The flames don't "dance" or move at all on my Dean and they do most spectacularly on my Greco.

Again, just my amateur opinion, I usually just play the **** things not obsess over the woodwork. 3 weeks ago I had no idea what a tenon even was.

 

[Ducati]

Laminate top. All the way.

The side view of the pickup cavity shows a thin layer of wood on the top of the guitar. A little enhancement in photoshop makes it even more obvious. Look for the thin, lighter-colored line beneath the finish.

 

[ochay]

:lol:
wouldn't there be a veneer you could see all the way around???

 

[Spleen]

Whoa, I didn't go far enough in the gallery I guess. I only saw the previous picture where the side looks contiguous to the top at
http://images.kodakgallery.com/servlet/Images/photos1389/1/62/93/11/96/1/196119362106_0_BG.jpg?a=63
I agree Ducati, the pic you reference does indeed look very much like a thin veneer. How does one reconcile the 2 pictures? I guess that's the point of the thread. :-?

 

[Ducati]

How does one reconcile the 2 pictures? I guess that's the point of the thread. :-?

Have you ever seen a Robert DeNiro movie called Ronin? He plays a thief/assassin who sniffs out an ambush. They ask him how he knew and he says something like "Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt."

In a case like this I would say that any evidence that the guitar conforms to expected specs is enough.

 

[ochay]

this will end the speculation-
Take a sharp exacto knife>>>>
up where the area in question is slice a little piece off>> that will tell all-
if veneer it will show up fore sure
Buy the way thats what someone did on one of my 1981 LS120's they cut a little slice by the center seam and no veneer >>all maple.........
:wink: