ST70 "Rare Model"

[Sigmania]

Are you saying it “exites the excellent old guitar manias” as Hamamatsu translated from the 1982 catalog?

If so, as he translated, you are a “true guitar freak!” 8)

 

[Sigmania]

Makes me wonder who the “guitar freaks” were at Tokai 40 years ago? Someone was very tuned into vintage American guitars to not only notice these design quirks but also push to put them into production. Really amazing to me and super cool company for doing it.

Almost like a company of enthusiasts building for enthusiasts.

Love that they used phrases like “GOOD OLD STRAT” and “Oldies but Goodies” on Springys.

I don’t think that was just marketing. I’m guessing they meant it.

Super cool.

 

[Sigmania]

I'm wondering if the same person who wrote the codes in the pickup compartment of the odd ST70 MG I got was actually the same person who wrote the text in the catalogs? Very similar handwriting. Possible in a small company. If so, that person had their hands in a lot of the marketing and production.

Hamamatsu, do you know if there was such a person at Tokai? Marketing/design director? Guitar freak?

In Japanese wood block art in the early 1900s there was a style called "shin hanga" where the artist designed the wood block, cut the wood block himself, and made the prints. One person start to finish. A true craftsman. Seems like there may have been such crafts people at Tokai in this period making decisions and having their hands on the process, at least in part?

 

[HAMAMATSU]

8) tokai is a very small company today. they used to have many factories before but only one lately and about less than 50 people working there i heard. i only know 2 people personally whom they used to work at tokai in the 80s before 1985. i have asked them many questions now and then but they dont talk much anymore lately. its because they are getting old so they arent too sure about their memories or its been 40 years since so they forgot completely or they dont/cant talk about those mysterious stuff because those were the companys secrets. so, its very difficult to get exact infos/answers/truths of tokai back then today. yet tokai makes the fantastic quality guitars today and they are so well respected and lengendary in the japanese guitar industry now and then. tokai seems very well respected even in the world. this is very suprising fact if we really think about it when tokai has been making mostly the fender/gibson copies. who can only be allowed and respected for making the exact replicas of gibson/fender today? only tokai is. unofficially by gibson/fender yet tokai is allowed. so very special company tokai is. really. very interesting and rare and valuable. thats why we keep on being attracted by tokai very much and so talking dearly on this forum. god saves tokai good as long as they are quality before quantity! tokai peace! tokai joe, aka hamamatsu.

 

[guitar hiro]

Are you saying it “exites the excellent old guitar manias” as Hamamatsu translated from the 1982 catalog?

If so, as he translated, you are a “true guitar freak!” 8)

yep, that Strat has stimulated my old guitar manias, for years :lol:


if that Firemist Gold Strat was ever offered for sale to a Japanese buyer I could see that going to Key at Strato-Crazy.

wouldn't be surprised if Key has hunted it down previously & made an offer on it; it's right up his alley

 

[Sigmania]

I wish I had close up shots of the neck on it and of the FO ST70.

I wonder how thick that cap is? Do the frets rest entirely within the cap? Under the cap, is there a void where the truss rod is or is the truss rod set lower so that it’s solid above it?

Would like to have one in hand to inspect. 8)

 

[guitar hiro]

I wish I had close up shots of the neck on it and of the FO ST70.

I wonder how thick that cap is? Do the frets rest entirely within the cap? Under the cap, is there a void where the truss rod is or is the truss rod set lower so that it’s solid above it?

Would like to have one in hand to inspect. 8)

the old school vintage Fender maple cap necks don't pop up much these days so, seeing one in person is gonna be uncommon, IMO.

I have a Fender Japan maple cap neck buried deep in a pile of Strat cases; haven't seen that guitar in a coons age, and I have no idea how close to original spec it was produced. One day, when I have some spare time, I could dig through the pile, and see what the construction looks like. :wink:

 

[guitar hiro]

I located this old Reverb listing for a vintage maple cap neck; has some interesting photos that demonstrate the construction

https://reverb.com/ca/item/379011-vintage-jan-1970-fender-stratocaster-maple-cap-neck-rare-1969-strat-jimi-hendrix-tone

looks like the very bottom edge of the fret tangs are at the very bottom of the maple cap piece but not quite going into the underlying neck lumber

 

[Sigmania]

Cool. I'll save the pics here.

1970 neck selling for $2,995....

Looks like the truss rod is enclosed below the cap.

 

[Sigmania]

My understanding is that the reasoning behind having a maple cap over a maple neck was to help prevent twisting?

I also read somewhere that the impetus to put a rosewood fretboard on was that over time the maple necks start to look dirty from use. Even Leo Fender thought that.

Interesting stuff.

 

[Stringzy]

The benefits of the cap could well make sense, Sigmania. Presumably the cap stabilizes the neck to prevent the torsioning and subsequent twisting as the wood drys and matures.

I was talking guitars last week with the luthier at a fairly high end local guitar shop, and he warned me that highly figured maple necks can twist, and this is why some builders are implanting graphite rods in them to stabilize the neck for the long term. I’m privately buying a boutique S type guitar with a figured maple neck that I haven’t played or seen, and this luthier warned me to watch out for twisting in the neck, as it is a fatal flaw, and can’t be feasibly corrected. Maybe the cap is an effort to avert this from happening?

 

[guitar hiro]

I see the speculation as to the reasoning why Fender produced the maple cap neck interesting; I'll jump in the fray.

My opinion is below, and could be completely wrong: :lol:
1. Fender previously produced maple necked guitars, for many years, and I assume many Fender players preferred maple necks.
2. Fender produced the slab board rosewood neck, which must have been a disappointment to many Fender maple neck fans.
3. Fender then transitions to the round laminated rosewood neck.
4. Fender was likely contacted by many fans of the maple neck to once again produce guitars with a maple neck. With the tooling in place for the round laminated rosewood necks, Fender likely decided to produce 'all' maple necks with the tooling, and the design they had, at that time.

That all seems logical.

 

[Sigmania]

FWIW my 1979 ST100.

Highly figured maple. No issues with the neck.

 

[Sigmania]

One of my favorite Strat pictures is a picture of George Harrison in a studio with a flame neck Strat. This was pre beard so probably mid 60s.

May be the one Clapton gave him that he painted?

I guess it’s bird’s eye after looking again.

If you like it, go for it. Fortune favors the brave. 8)

 

[Stringzy]

That is one absolutely stunning guitar!!! I didn’t realize that Tokai ever used figured maple on their necks.

I actually think that maybe the luthier was referring to Birdseye maple being inherently unstable by its grain pattern. When I bought my Sadowsky Strat in 1989, Roger told me that he didn’t trust Birdseye for necks. Maybe he’s changed by now.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks. There are definitely some flame neck Tokais out there. You can search this forum for them. The folks at Tokai were craftsmen at a time when a lot of American companies seemed to have forgotten about it and the folks at Tokai had high regard for quality pieces of wood.

The ST70 that this thread is focused on is a super cool guitar. I was hoping Peter Mac would jump in and share some of his wealth of knowledge. He had told me that there was evidently some sharing of design information by Fender at the time they were in negotiations with Tokai to build guitars around 1980/81(?) before eventually using Fujigen. Fujigen then made the ST62 for Fender in Japan starting in 1982? I wonder if Fender shared info on this rare '64 maple cap model with Tokai at the time, or if the folks at Tokai found it independently? There is a story there that we may never know.

 

[guitar hiro]

I wonder if Fender shared info on this rare '64 maple cap model with Tokai at the time, or if the folks at Tokai found it independently? There is a story there that we may never know.

the Japanese have proven again & again they are very adapt at 'reverse engineering' so many different products, guitars included, that they would not require the help of Fender

 

[Sigmania]

The green ST70 arrived today from Japan. I learned some things about it.

First someone really screwed up the wiring in it and the pick guard and pickups selector and two pots were changed.

Also, this guitar is not 2 piece center seam as I think some of the literature says. This one seems to be 3 piece alder.

I'll attach pictures.

 

[bluejeannot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ZJ00vV2eo Hi, E pickups were not made by Di Marzio they were made by Gotoh who supplied all other Tokai alnico pickups at this time. The one exception was the 83/84 Goldstar st 80 which had a 2 piece lightweight alder body finished in nitro, celluloid pickguard and black backed Di Marzio VS 1 pickups fitted as standard. The Goldstar St80 was also fitted with a rosewood slab board to mimic the 1960 Strat it was modelled on. The link above shows my own guitar being played at a Tokai convention a good few years ago.

 

[Sigmania]

E pickups were not made by Di Marzio they were made by Gotoh

I deleted the DiMarzio attribution and just left it as E pickups.

Those have been a mystery to me as to who made them. I had recently read that they were made by DiMarzio.

If you could point me to more info on them I would appreciate it.

Here’s one thread that says they are DiMarzios:

“ the top ones werestamped E they were dimarzios”

And

“ Tokai E Series pickups ( Which were made by Dimarzio 'VS-1's')”

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4438

Thanks!