Lawsuit?

[Sigmania]

And another interesting case where a major US manufacturer went after an importer/distributor. This time with the Tokai Les Paul clones.

I know this was mentioned earlier. The piece I hadn't seen was Gibson going after the importer.


In 2006 Gibson lost a lawsuit against PRS Guitars, Gibson claiming PRS was stealing the Les Paul shape and design.

Gibson lost the trademark for Les Paul in Finland. According to the court, "Les Paul" has become a common noun for guitars of a certain type. The lawsuit began when Gibson sued Musamaailma, which imports Tokai guitars, for trademark violation. However, several witnesses testified that the term "Les Paul" denotes character in a guitar rather than a particular guitar model. The court also found it aggravating that Gibson had used Les Paul in the plural form and that the importer of Gibson guitars had used Les Paul as a common noun. The court decision will become effective, as Gibson is not going to appeal.

 

[FenderDan1]

I think it’s very very important to realise that the term “lawsuit” regarding this issue is from the UK and Europe and not the USA, excluding Gibson.

It’s important to note that the USA did not get the JV but instead the SQ late 1983 and if you look at the massive massive list of strat copies from japan was made for the uk/European market, the USA didn’t get the Greco strat, Fernandes and so, it’s actually locolized to the uk/Europe so there will be a massive lack of information in the USA regarding this, most Japanese guitars in the USA or imported in recent years so yes the USA side of the pond will argue that there is no lawsuit and you would be correct from that point of view.

It’s also important to realise that the SQ 1983/4 aimed at the USA market flopped massively and all stock was sent to uk/Europe/Australia and was discontinued for this reason.

I think from a USA point of view “there was no lawsuit” and I think this is where the problem is.

With Dan Smith now in charge and with the contemporary looking strats he made, in 1984 to 1987 this was copied as the “contemporary series” uk/Europe and “boxer series” in small numbers sent to the USA but as far as fender japan goes that’s about it for the USA

The list of japan fenders/squiers not sent to the USA because of the backlash from the USA on squier and made in japan. For example the USA did not get the “silver series squier” as a result of all of this.

 

[Sigmania]

Not only was there a lawsuit in 1982 between the Fender and Tokai distributors in the UK, but there was one between Gibson and Tokai in the US in 2006 mentioned on page 2 of this thread by mdvineng & felixcatus.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25979&start=15

Here it is:

https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details...v-00449/USCOURTS-tnmd-3_04-cv-00449-0/context

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like Gibson went after:

Active Musical Products Ltd., Defendant
Godlyke Distributing, Inc., Defendant
Mike's Music, Defendant
Musictoyz.com Inc., Defendant
Mike Palermo, Defendant
The Guitar Cellar LLC. Defendant
Tokai Gakki Company, Ltd., Defendant
Tokai Guitar Co., Ltd., Defendant

 

[Sigmania]

Back to Tokai & Fender. I just found an interesting article:

In the early '80s a new problem that Fender had to deal with emerged: the rise of the made in Japan guitars, caused by dollar increase against yen and by the quality of the instruments realized in Japan, which made those Americans uncompetitive. These guitars very often literally copied Stratocasters and at the same time they cost less. Since it was difficult to protect Fender design from foreign competition, in 1982 Bill Schultz and Roger Balmer (Fender's then head of marketing and sales) decided to produce authentic Fender Stratocasters in Japan, in order to compete with the non-original copies. "Not only did we have to get the image of Fender back up again, and get the quality standard built up to make that happen, but we had to stop this plethora of [Japanese] copies," Dan Smith said. "A lot of arrogant companies, like Tokai, a lot of these companies basically told Bill Schultz and I that they were gonna bury us, that they were gonna be Fender, that whether we liked it or not they were gonna take over the marketplace"

After a meeting with Mr. Kojima from Kanda Shokai and Mike Yamano from Yamano Music, the Fender Japan co. Ltd. was officially announced at the Grand Palace Hotel, Kudanshita, Tokyo, on 11 March 1982. The design and components of the Stratocasters would be pertinent to Fender/CBS and the distribution on the Japanese market would be managed by Kanda Shokai only, while Yamano Music, which invested money in Fender Japan, would deal with the importation into Japan of the instruments produced in the U.S.A Kanda Shokai suggested Tokai as one possible factory, but the leaders of Fender USA hated Tokai, they did not trust them at all. So the guitars would be realized by FujiGen Gakki, in Matsumoto, about 200 km north of Tokyo, which was known for its production of the Ibanez and Antoria, and because it manufactured the Greco for Kanda.

I guess the opinion that Fender hated Tokai is the author's Antonio Calvosa's?

He also mentions the period where Tokai made CIJ guitars for Fender to help Dyna fill orders, but says that only lasted a few months??

https://www.fuzzfaced.net/fender-made-in-japan-mij.html

 

[Sigmania]

Timeline:

Note: Removing old versions to reduce space and confusion. Scan ahead for most recent version.

 

[FenderDan1]

Re Gibson Tokai 2006, yes again you are spot on and as a result, from 2006 tokai agreed not sell the Les Paul direct to shops in the USA but shops can approach tokai and buy from them on their own head be it, you’ll also notice that all advertising in the USA from tokai does not feature the Les Paul or TST (fender headstock) but they would not change the open book headstock.

The uk on the other hand has the Les Paul from tokai and advertising but not the TST.

 

[Sigmania]

I think it’s very very important to realise that the term “lawsuit” regarding this issue is from the UK and Europe and not the USA, excluding Gibson.

It’s important to note that the USA did not get the JV but instead the SQ late 1983 and if you look at the massive massive list of strat copies from japan was made for the uk/European market, the USA didn’t get the Greco strat, Fernandes and so, it’s actually locolized to the uk/Europe so there will be a massive lack of information in the USA regarding this, most Japanese guitars in the USA or imported in recent years so yes the USA side of the pond will argue that there is no lawsuit and you would be correct from that point of view.

It’s also important to realise that the SQ 1983/4 aimed at the USA market flopped massively and all stock was sent to uk/Europe/Australia and was discontinued for this reason.

I think from a USA point of view “there was no lawsuit” and I think this is where the problem is.

With Dan Smith now in charge and with the contemporary looking strats he made, in 1984 to 1987 this was copied as the “contemporary series” uk/Europe and “boxer series” in small numbers sent to the USA but as far as fender japan goes that’s about it for the USA

The list of japan fenders/squiers not sent to the USA because of the backlash from the USA on squier and made in japan. For example the USA did not get the “silver series squier” as a result of all of this.

Yep. I remember this. I was looking at Strats here in the US in 1986/87 (?) and passed on the Squires because that logo made them look noticeably like a “less than” Strat. They got a reputation as cheap knock offs.

I ended up buying a run of the mill Strat and a red Knob amp. Both have since been sold. Had I been able to buy a JV I would have.

I since bought a Fullerton V that I later sold when I got my ST100 and ST80. 8)

 

[Voidoid56]

I guess the opinion that Fender hated Tokai is the author's Antonio Calvosa's?

To me, it seems likely that they actually did. Just Dan Smith calling them "arrogant" indicates it, I guess, it's not really something you'd say about any competitor. And they certainly went after them with a vengeance.

Anectdotally, I've been told that Tokai wasn't exactly popular with the rest of the Japanese industry either. They were considered "outsiders" to begin with, being based in Hamamatsu, not in the traditional woodworking cluster in Matsumotu, i e away from Fujigen, Matsumoku and a lot of small manufacturers. And they appear to have been considered difficult to deal with by that segment of the industry. But like I said, I have no source material for this.

The full 1992 Dan Smith interview quoted from in Calvoso's text is here. Gotta love Smith's first impression of the Fujigen factory: "it was antiquated, but you could eat off the floor".

https://reverb.com/news/interview-f...n-how-to-turn-around-a-faltering-guitar-brand

 

[Sigmania]

One other weird puzzle piece that I don't know where to fit, is the logo change that first appears on the 1982 catalogs.

It is not the spaghetti logo, but still has a slight resemblance to the Fender logo.

Maybe this was an overall company logo rather than for product lines like Springys, Breezys, and Love Rocks?

It does appear on TSTs and ASTs in 1985.

Not sure how long lived it was and in what markets it was used on guitars? It appears on catalogs until 1984 as far as I can see.

 

[Sigmania]

Anyone know if these court proceedings in the UK are public?

I think one thing we are running into is that 40 years ago documents were not put on line.

My question is whether these documents are available as hard copies, but just not on line? In other words, someone may need to go to the proper court or archive and scan the documents then upload them?

We have the lawyers' names/law firms, parties' names, approx dates, etc.:

Courts: High Court of Justice-Chancery Division
Lawyers: Gordon Bishop, instructed by Knapp-Fishers, appeared for the plaintiffs. David Micklethwait, instructed by Ratner & Cave (Blackpool), appeared for the defendants.
Date: 1982
Parties: "CBS Inc v. Blue Suede Music" or "CBS Incorporated and Another v. Blue Suede Music Ltd. and Another" (1982)
Case record: Vol. No. 24, RPC 523-525, Dec. 2, 1982


I know there are situations where cases are sealed; however, we have seen where parts of this saga were posted on line so I doubt they are actually sealed. At least the situation in 1982 with CBS-Arbiter and Blue Suede Music was not sealed apparently.

Not sure about what other things we don't know...

 

[Sigmania]

To me, it seems likely that they actually did. Just Dan Smith calling them "arrogant" indicates it, I guess, it's not really something you'd say about any competitor. And they certainly went after them with a vengeance.

Maybe this is the root of the "arrogance" Dan Smith & others at Fender perceived? That the folks at Tokai saw Fender as inferior to that company in the past. A view shared by many.

From the 1978 catalog:

"Superior to The Old Electric Guitars

A powerful sound with a withered taste. Beautifully completed design ・ It is possible to accurately restore these excellent old guitars, which can be said to be the origin of vintage guitar electric guitars that are embraced by many artists and are on stage all over the world ... So, to make these players' dreams ... come true. A project team consisting ... of about 10 people, including musicians and ... craftsmen who are continuing ... the actual research, has ... completed a series in which not only ... the original restoration but also the performance has been upgraded"

 

[Sigmania]

I think part of the rift is that the folks at Tokai really emulated and essentially worshipped what Fender once was. They were focused on the innovative products Fender had long since stopped making.

Dan Smith even admits how bad things had gotten when he talks about coming in and having to undo years of mistakes at the factory.

So Dan Smith was reflecting the view folks at Tokai had about what Fender had become on the one hand, but then pivoted to defending Fender when challenged by a worthy competitor.

Many people saw that Fender had long since turned its back on musicians and had instead become one of many companies in CBS' portfolio focusing on maintaining profitability for shareholders rather than being true to the pioneering company that Leo Fender created.

Just look at this letter where the folks at Tokai reached out to Leo in the midst of all the turmoil. Very telling in my opinion.

"However, your original designs are predominant and nobody else can surpass them."

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21672

 

[Sigmania]

Worth another read now that we know about the CBS-Arbiter v. Blue Suede piece.

Need to update my timeline. I had left this out.

Dated April 8, 1982

"Dear Mr. Fender

On behalf of my president, Mr. T. Adachi, let me introduce our company to you first.

We, TOKAI GAKKI CO. LTD., is a Hamamatsu-located musical instrument manufacturing company and is regarded as the third largest Japanese manufacturers in this industry. Our main lines are Guitars---both acoustic and electric, Pianos and Pianicas. Practically, we are making most of the so-called musical instruments, except the wind instruments.

Our electric guitars, especially, including, the "Fender-Strat, Telecaster, PB and JB" and the "Les Paul" replica models are very well accented, especially in this domestic Japanese market, and just recently we started exporting them to Europe, too, which we had been holding, to avoid unnecessary trouble with CBS. All our instruments are enjoying a very good reputation in all the markets we are selling.

We have never tried, nor will intend, to ship any of these models to USA, as we know they have registered their headstock shapes as trade marks there.

We are, of course, also trying to introduce our original designs (original shape models) for all over the world now. However, your original designs are predominant and nobody else can surpass them.

Knowing this for sure, we introduced replica models of yours in later 1977, very strongly urged by many professional musicians in Japan, who had/have not been satisfied with the quality of the current CBS's instruments, strictly limiting the market only inside Japan.

Needless to say, we have had no intention of interfering CBS's business unfairly anywhere.

In 1980 we started making "Fender" Acoustic Guitars for CBS and up until last December, 1981, C8S and we were on very good (friendly) terms, and then they wanted the entire distribution of our "Tokai" made "copy" models with "Fender Japan" brand. Our talks came to a deadlock when we knew they wanted to control this Japanese market but did not want to market our products in USA (possibly because our products oversell their "CBS's Fenders").

 

[Sigmania]

Possibly more context for the "arrogant" comment and another view of what actually happened:

"….they wanted the entire distribution of our "Tokai" made "copy" models with "Fender Japan" brand. Our talks came to a deadlock when we knew they wanted to control this Japanese market but did not want to market our products in USA (possibly because our products oversell their "CBS's Fenders")."

 

[Sigmania]

Further connecting dots...

1980

Tokai begins making Fender acoustics (per letter from Tokai to Leo Fender in April, 1982)

October 1981

"In October 1981, Blue Suede Music launched the now legendary Tokai vintage series of guitars on to the UK market"
(From 1986 Tokai ad "Beware of Imitations").

Note: This timing roughly coincides with printing of Spring 1982 catalog including new models and an announced planned change to a Fender style serial number system in February of 1982.

December 1981

Relationship and business partnership between Tokai and Fender sours. Per letter from Tokai to Leo Fender dated April 8, 1982: "In 1980 we started making "Fender" Acoustic Guitars for CBS and up until last December, 1981, C8S and we were on very good (friendly) terms, and then they wanted the entire distribution of our "Tokai" made "copy" models with "Fender Japan" brand. Our talks came to a deadlock when we knew they wanted to control this Japanese market but did not want to market our products in USA (possibly because our products oversell their "CBS's Fenders")."

January 1982

Jan. 21, 1982. CBS/Arbiter sends letter titled "URGENT - PRESS RELEASE" giving notice to Tokai dealers in the UK of potential legal action, injunction.

Jan. 25, 1982. Blue Suede Music Ltd. consults Ratner & Cave attorneys as counsel and sends its own letter to Tokai dealers in the UK.

February 1982

Previously planned model changes and new Fender style serial number system set to take effect.

March 1982

The new company of "Fender Japan Co. Ltd." is announced.

April 1982

Tokai sent letter to Leo Fender. Lots of info in there as to the genesis of the conflict with CBS.

May 1982

UK Customs seizes Tokai guitars being imported including 205 guitars bearing the word "Strat".

CBS/Arbiter (Fender UK distributor) sought an injunction in the UK of the importation of Tokai guitars claiming Tokai was "passing off" guitars and claiming that was a copyright infringement.

June1982

Blue Suede Music Ltd. petitions court re: seizure, etc.

Judge rules that the use of the word Tokai could not be an infringement on Fender's rights.

"I held that the particular form of the word "Tokai", which was being used on the defendants' guitars, was not an infringement of the registered trade mark of the plaintiffs, "Fender". The plaintiffs, however, alleged infringement of other registered trade marks, of which one was "Strat". I dealt also in that judgment with the questions of infringement of copyright and passing off. What has happened is that, before I heard the motion the plaintiffs had served on the Commissioners of Customs & Excise certain notices in relation to guitars to be imported by the defendants..."


Ruling on guitars with the word "Strat" on them:

"In effect what the notice of motion asks is that I shall make a mandatory injunction against the plaintiffs to withdraw the notices which they have served. So far as concerns the notice in respect of the largest proportion, numberwise, of the guitars which have been seized by the Customs, namely, the so-called "Vintage Stratocaster", of which there are 205, I would not under any circumstances consider making the order asked for, because it is conceded that those carry the trade mark "Strat" and are infringements."

"... in so far as the defendants now wish to try to secure the release of those 205 guitars bearing that infringing mark "Strat", possibly on the basis of being able to delete the infringing mark, they must follow the procedure which is set out in the appropriate statute relating to the position"


July 1982

Melody Maker article on July 10, 1982 touting the new Squires available in the UK.

October 1982

Block logo guitars in shops in the UK

1984

CBS sells Fender

Tokai is allegedly sued by Fender in the US for "manufacturing counterfeit products". (Still have no documents to support this claim)

Tokai allegedly files for bankruptcy under the "Corporate Rehabilitation Law". (Still have no documents to support this claim)

1985

Modified head stock American market ST, AST, appears.

Curious timing for the AST redesign.... Possibly related to alleged lawsuit in the US by Fender the previous year claiming Tokai was "manufacturing counterfeit products"? (Still have no documents to support this claim)

1986

Tokai emerges from bankruptcy and reorganizes as "Tokai Gakki Mfg. Co., Ltd."

 

[Sigmania]

Pretty intense sequence between October 1981 and June 1982 now that the puzzle pieces are falling into place.

 

[Sigmania]

As I am understanding all of this at the moment…

American market:

Tokai never intended to sell Fender style headstock guitars in the US (stated in letter to Leo Fender April 8, 1982).

AST with modified headstock for US market. Shipped beginning 1982 with “fat 7” / transitional logo.

UK market:

Fender headstock Tokais with spaghetti logo imported into UK by Blue Suede Music Ltd. beginning October 1981.

Following legal battle in UK between CBS-Arbiter & Blue Suede Music Ltd over Tokai allegedly "passing off" their guitars as Fenders.

Decal changed in UK to block logo by October 1982.

 

[Sigmania]

Knowing Tokai never intended to market Fender headstock guitars in the US makes the whole SRV saga documented in another thread more interesting.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26098&p=195548&hilit=SRV#p195548

He was photographed with a spaghetti logo Springy. Then at some point Tony Dukes tried to work a deal with him, sending him ASTs with the modified headstock. Photographed him with them. Used in a Tokai catalog. Then it all blew up.

But the timeline stretches all through this period and beyond.

Hard to imagine SRV with a modified headstock AST. Springy yes. AST no. That was always a stretch in my opinion.

 

[Sigmania]

Wondering if some guitars in the UK were re-labeled in order to deal with Fender?

Spaghetti logo changed to script logo:

ghost of the Spaghetti 7 on my VSB80 1981

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26272&p=197024&hilit=vsb80#p197024