Lawsuit?

[ATO]

Most likely explanation!

 

[ATO]

dulplicate

 

[Sigmania]

So cool.

Fun piecing this stuff together.

To think that guitar was in the thick of it.

And most people had no idea any of this even happened.

I wish someone in the UK could find Eric Dixon if he is still alive. What he knows could fill volumes of books.

 

[Sigmania]

This is what I have gathered on him:

Eric Dixon & Blue Suede Music Ltd. UK

 

[Sigmania]

Now I am having second thoughts about this odd Breezy?

Wonder if other models got caught up in this with the logo issue??

Still probably a Partscaster, but makes me wonder.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26435

 

[ATO]

Is that 1st body code number 1 or 7?
Edit - it's a 1 - January.
7 would look like it's written here, with a sloping vertical. Lawsuit guitar!

 

[Sigmania]

It's a weird guitar.

Pickups are mixed TEA and TEB.

Color code is MB and not MR.

Not sure what it is, but it has been a long running mystery for me so I was just throwing it out there.

 

[ATO]

The B of that MB stamp doesn't look right for B either.

 

[Sigmania]

1982 ST100 OW

Pot dates are May 1982 (25 P)

Production code is September.

Neck: 9=26
Body: 9=1

So if made in September, this is right around the period when the first spaghetti logos were being switched to block logos. In the UK, later elsewhere apparently.

Very interesting guitar.


Tokai Springy Sound

 

[ATO]

Have you seen those type pots factory fitted before from that period?

 

[Sigmania]

I have seen them around that period. But uncommon.

Have not noticed a pattern in when they used them.

 

[Sigmania]

Pot codes... yeah, well... it's a bit of a black art, innit?

I'll share what I know... or rather what I think I know. It's basically all theories in the classic scientific sense, i e interpretations that seem to work and have yet to be disproven. Proof would be credible period documentation spelling it all out, but I've yet to see that, and I doubt we'll ever see that, frankly. I mean, we don't even know who the manufacturers were in most cases.

Most of what I have is based on the guitars that interest me the most, i e Greco Fender copies. Which is a good thing, since they more or less invariably have a plaintext month and year of manufacture in their serials, giving you a solid date to compare any pot markings to.

Anyway, first up:

The "YM X" codes seems to have been first interpreted by Burny enthusiasts, as an aid to dating unserialled instruments from the 80's and 90's. It also works fine with Grecos, which have them from about 1980. The earliest I've seen in Tokais have been 1982, and they seem to be in most guitars from about 1985-86 or so.
It's on pots with embossed markings, below the kOhm number (rarely, there's what appears to be a parts number instead, I've seen 504071, 504041, 50472 and 50442 so far).
The first character is the last digit of the year, the second one is the month (1 - 0, plus N for November and D for December). A space follows, then a letter, almost always K, but P turns up infrequently and I've heard V being reported as well. The meaning of the letter is unknown. Some sources claim that P is on push-pull pots, but this is clearly incorrect, since PP-pots are technically very different, with a large switch box (like the lower part of a mini toggle switch) attached to the bottom.
You see these in various guitars from about 1980 to at least 93-94, so there's an overlap. So, for instance, a 2 for the year could mean either 1982 or '92. In practice, that's seldom a problem, most guitars have construction tells that lets you tell the decades apart.

View attachment 1092
Late '81/early '82 Burny RLG-50. Visible codes are 18 for Aug '81 and 1N for Nov '81.


View attachment 1093
1985 Tokai TST-50, 56 for June '85.

View attachment 1094
Tokai PB-45, 26 for Feb 1982, with the very rare P code (and clearly no push-pull pots). This is one of the earliest instances of pots with these codes I've seen in a Tokai.

View attachment 1096
0D for Dec 1980 in a early'81 Greco SE. The D is easily mistaken for 0.

View attachment 1097
The "parts numbers" version of this code style. 504071 and -41 with 06 and 07 date codes in a 1990 Greco RG-950 Rickenbacker 360 copy.

 

[Rodi]

Tokai was sold in USA. I bought two starts n tele n a shredder. Unless Shoreline Music in CT was getting em straight from Japan, but I doubt it

 

[Sigmania]

Yes they were. But I don't believe the Fender shaped headstock ever was sold in the US.

I live in the US too. Any Tokais with a Fender headstock have to be imported by someone other than a dealer.

The AST is the American ST headstock.

You might find this interesting:

Stevie Ray Vaughan, Tony Dukes & Tokai

 

[Sigmania]

My 81 VSB with a removed Spag and replaced with Script Logo. So I assume it was not shipped in 81 and was possibly modified later in 82?

I’m thinking mdvineng’s bass was somehow caught up in this too?

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like another one from 1981?

bluejeannot, can you share your serial number?

Yes it`s an all original Tokai 1981 VSB-80 AS(Amber Sunburst). bass.The imprint of earlier spaghetti logo can be seen faintly under the nitro cellulose lacquer on the headstock of this bass.The little electric bass decal has dissapeared on mine or may never have been fitted. These re logoed models are almost certainly amongst the last models of these basses ever made .It is now mine! Another member here Da Santos, has or had the same 1981 model bass and which also has the same concealed logo under the lacquer,so they must have released them onto the market at roughly the same time after they had been re badged.The new less controversial script logo was applied I believe at the factory in 83/84, onto basses that had been made a couple of years earlier and were still in stock .Contrary to what appearances might suggest the bass is made of two pieces of book matched nitro finished, lightweight alder, stained to resemble mahogany to complement the the flame maple veneered top.It is a very lightweight, resonant, versatile and superb sounding bass.
I have copied Da Santos`s post below.Mine which I bought from member Moltov did not need new pickups or rewiring, but each to his own I guess! Gabe.

 

[bluejeannot]

1016430

 

[bluejeannot]

My VSB 80

 

[Sigmania]

1016430

Fascinating.

mdvineng's VSB80 is SN 1015889.

His was a spag logo changed to script also.

 

[Sigmania]

bluejennot, yours is the same one as this?

Post your Tokai bass pics, please!

"An interesting thing about it... if you look closely at the logo, under the 'legal' Tokai logo is the outline of the old 'illegal' Tokai logo in the lacquer. As far as I can tell by researching old product catalogues, this was bass was released around '79-'82, so I'm wondering if the logos were switched in the factory at the time of the lawsuit dramas? Anyway, enjoy the pics!"