False Edwards Info On Web

[youami]

So, you bought a guitar that wasn't 100% what it was claimed to be by the manufacturer and you're not happy? Then take it back to the manufacturer/retailer and ask for your money back. They don't want to give you your money back? Sue them then, or else quit whining.

 

[MIJvintage]

So, you bought a guitar that wasn't 100% what it was claimed to be by the manufacturer and you're not happy? Then take it back to the manufacturer/retailer and ask for your money back. They don't want to give you your money back? Sue them then, or else quit whining.

:lol: :lol: ......................

 

[JVsearch]

So, you bought a guitar that wasn't 100% what it was claimed to be by the manufacturer and you're not happy? Then take it back to the manufacturer/retailer and ask for your money back. They don't want to give you your money back? Sue them then, or else quit whining.

They wont take it back - legally there is no problem with the guitar, it is fit for purpose and IS as described (remember it is legal to say it was MIJ because 40% of it was done in Japan).

He would have to sue, and why in hell should he have to pay for that? :-?

This whole load of bollocks with stuff being made partly in one country, partly in China and still claimed to be made in the other country has to stop, OR consumers need to have it explained to them why it's good for them. People like to buy American, UK, Aus etc and manufacturers know this. Don't bother giving me any crappy economic wet dream arguments about competition because economics has never recovered from Friedman, it has virtually zero credibility with most people (those not involved with or interested in economics).

 

[youami]

He would have to sue, and why in hell should he have to pay for that? :-?

Because he's the one that bought the guitar, and the one that has a problem with it.

 

[Special K]

... I was a bit annoyed to learn my edwards wasn't 100% MIJ, as I'd bought it thinking it was.. It's still a good guitar, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Who left a bad taste in you mouth? Who do you believe?
The Whole Story, and More?

 

[Anonymous]

Whether or not the guitar is as good as an MIJ is immaterial- the consumer has the right to buy, or not, for any number of reasons (for example, I'm not too keen to pay the same price for something which is made with chinese labour prices and practices as something made in Japan, which has, presumably, much higher wages and labour rights etc.). It's the consumer's call, not the business's, and that being the case, the business should tell the truth. If, as the business often claims, "it's as good", then why not say where it's from? If it truly is as good, surely the consumer will realise that?

Totally agree with you Dave. There was a time when Made In Japan meant cheap & nasty to many people (whether or not that was actually true), but the Japanese carried on & they earned their reputation for quality over many years.

You're also right about the recession being caused by unfettered capitalism, which of course means unfettered greed & dishonesty these days. :evil:

 

[JVsearch]

He would have to sue, and why in hell should he have to pay for that? :-?

Because he's the one that bought the guitar, and the one that has a problem with it.

Yeah, but it's going to be cheaper for him to just have a whinge on a forum with his forum brothers comforting him! :lol:

 

[youami]

You're also right about the recession being caused by unfettered capitalism, which of course means unfettered greed & dishonesty these days. :evil:

Yeah, **** all those unfettered capitalists! Like for example Leo Fender, Orville Gibson, the guys who started Tokai Gakki... we'd be so much better off without the likes of them!

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, **** all those unfettered capitalists! Like for example Leo Fender, Orville Gibson, the guys who started Tokai Gakki... we'd be so much better off without the likes of them!

Well I don't know much about Tokai Gakki, but they seem to have been an excellent business model for how companies should be run. Consistent quality from 1978 (at least) till now. Not much evidence of greed, in fact I can't think of any evidence. Pride in what they do, honesty...

How many companies are run like that? Maybe the banks should take note.

Some f****** hope!

 

[Dave_Mc]

So, you bought a guitar that wasn't 100% what it was claimed to be by the manufacturer and you're not happy? Then take it back to the manufacturer/retailer and ask for your money back. They don't want to give you your money back? Sue them then, or else quit whining.

it's not as simple as that; I only found out maybe a year after buying the guitar and I'm also not sure that ishibashi actually claimed it was MIJ, but I had seen plenty of other sellers claiming it was japanese-made, and lots of posts on the internet. I also got to try a second-hand edwards in a local shop, which had "Made in Japan" on the back of the headstock. Terribly sorry for making some assumptions based on the mountains of research I did (it took me about a year between considering a purchase and actually buying one).

By the way, last time I checked, the only two options weren't "sue or quit whining". :roll: Remind me the next time you complain about something, and I'll give you a similarly sympathetic riposte. 8)

Who left a bad taste in you mouth? Who do you believe?
The Whole Story, and More?

er, what?

He would have to sue, and why in hell should he have to pay for that? :-?

agreed, i have better things to do than to sue for a couple of hundred quid. Plus I actually like the guitar, what I am going to do, sue because I'm a bit miffed? :lol:

Totally agree with you Dave. There was a time when Made In Japan meant cheap & nasty to many people (whether or not that was actually true), but the Japanese carried on & they earned their reputation for quality over many years.

You're also right about the recession being caused by unfettered capitalism, which of course means unfettered greed & dishonesty these days. :evil:

cheers, mike, at least you understand what I mean.

and capitalism was always unfettered greed, look at the south sea bubble.

lol at the snide comments about capitalism, too, nice straw man. last time i checked, leo fender didn't cause a worldwide recession.

 

[JVsearch]

Totally agree with you Dave. There was a time when Made In Japan meant cheap & nasty to many people (whether or not that was actually true), but the Japanese carried on & they earned their reputation for quality over many years.

Just to add an experience of mine - I have a Japanese guitar from the late 60's or very early 70's and IT IS cheap and nasty. I can only describe it as a joke of a guitar that needs heavily modifying to make it any use as an actual guitar!
However, the Japanese builders made short work of matching the US after that, within 10 years they had outdone both Gibson and Fender.

You're also right about the recession being caused by unfettered capitalism, which of course means unfettered greed & dishonesty these days. :evil:

You forgot outright fraud, negligence and incompetence! Ha ha ha ha ha... :lol:
I mean come on, Dick Fuld has to take the cake for incompetence or negligence. Check the ****** out:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877326,00.html

I sure that all of us could have steered Lehmans down the toilet for far less than the 500 mil he was paid!

 

[AlanN]

Sadly, not all information thats been posted is accurate.

That statement applies to anything posted on the internet and certainly ANYTHING sold on the internet. You can't police the whole thing. Don't forget the famous quote from P.T. Barnum:

"There's a sucker born every day"........ that's who they're going after.

Just do your homework so you can weed out the garbage when you come across it.

Indeed Marcus, proving your own point with a circular reference!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Japanese guitar from the late 60's or very early 70's and IT IS cheap and nasty. I can only describe it as a joke of a guitar that needs heavily modifying to make it any use as an actual guitar!

Is it a Jedson? They were nasty. :lol:

 

[Special K]

Edwards are Japan made line of ESP.

 

[Udonitron]

I don't understand what you want to say Special K... Are you claiming that the mylespaul.com thread contains statements you believe to be incorrect?
If so, it would be better if you pointed those statements out along with your reasons for doubting them.

/Magnus

Yeah, I too would love to know what he finds false and back it up with some links or articles that say otherwise.

I wrote in that MIJ post about how ESP has been a little deceiving and not forthright...they should have been and need to be! However I really do not think, after all the reading and great reviews on these guitars, that it would stop me from buying one. It took the MIJ market about 20-30 years to get the recognition they deserve and I think in 20 years, a lot of MIC guitars will have the same recognition as well.

 

[japanstrat]

The Chinese Edwards connection is in this post with Q&A from ESP http://www.unkar.org/read/mamono.2ch.net/compose/1227305887 as far back as 2008/11/22.

The Edwards using Honduras Mahogany theory http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more-2.html is a lot of speculation and nothing more.

The ESP Navigators have Honduras Mahogany listed in their specs but the ESP Edwards only have Mahogany listed in their specs.

The theory that there is all this Honduras Mahogany in Java Indonesia and ESP using it does not make much sense.

Cor-Tek (Cort) are in Indonesia and they are not using Honduras Mahogany from Java Indonesia and I'm not aware of any guitar company using Honduras Mahogany from Java Indonesia or anywhere in Asia.

 

[Udonitron]

There is also the ideal of smart marketing and using the same wood on all the guitars but only listing the higher end stuff on their more expensive line. That legitimizes the asking price on the Navs vs. the Ed's. Just a thought as ESP is very secretive about their wood

 

[japanstrat]

The Indonesian and Fiji Honduras Mahogany theories are just not feasible http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more-6.html

The Edwards use (native) Mahogany sourced from South East Asia or in other words Asian Mahogany just like the Corts etc.

Some Edwards buyers/owners might be pissed off that their Edwards is made in China and assembled in Japan and made from Asian Mahogany but the Edwards are still very well made and sound similar to a LP and are just as valid as a Greco that was made in Japan with African Mahogany.

There is no proof that African Mahogany is any better/worse than Asian or Honduras Mahogany it's all just personal preference and snobs who value their guitar based on the wholesale price of lumber or whatever.

I don't think it's really that valid to buy a newer low/mid priced guitar and expect that they are made like a older Japanese guitar in the same countries and using the same woods.

The economy of making guitars is always changing.

If a buyer wants a ESP Honduras Mahogany guitar then they have to pay 5 times the price of the Edwards.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Edwards are Japan made line of ESP.

Special K you are wrong, completely wrong.
This has been covered here fora couple of years now, way before that post on the "My LP forum" forum.
The information at "my LP forum" is mostly correct except for the fact that it is not "true mahogany" used in the Edwards guitars, South American "honduras mahogany" is the true mahogany, African is a relative of this. Ever wondered why Edwards are so light?. The information in the "other' section of this forum is correct and came from a former member who is Japanese and works in a music shop in japan, It came directly from ESP and it is not some translated rubbish that ends up being taken as gospel. They are great guitars and well worth the money they are sold for, why is it so hard for some people to get it through their thick heads that they have been made in China for quite some time now, not in Japan. In japan only a small amount of japanese content is needed to claim "MIJ" as has been stated here. It is an accepted fact around the world now that Edwards are made in China, that doesn't mean that they are bad guitars, it just means that you can get a good product cheaper.

Mick

 

[greco_burst]

Edwards are Japan made line of ESP.

Special K you are wrong, completely wrong.
This has been covered here fora couple of years now, way before that post on the "My LP forum" forum.
The information at "my LP forum" is mostly correct except for the fact that it is not "true mahogany" used in the Edwards guitars, South American "honduras mahogany" is the true mahogany, African is a relative of this. Ever wondered why Edwards are so light?. The information in the "other' section of this forum is correct and came from a former member who is Japanese and works in a music shop in japan, It came directly from ESP and it is not some translated rubbish that ends up being taken as gospel. They are great guitars and well worth the money they are sold for, why is it so hard for some people to get it through their thick heads that they have been made in China for quite some time now, not in Japan. In japan only a small amount of japanese content is needed to claim "MIJ" as has been stated here. It is an accepted fact around the world now that Edwards are made in China, that doesn't mean that they are bad guitars, it just means that you can get a good product cheaper.

Mick

+1
Special K, there are guys here who have been in contact with ESP, etc, and who have done their homework, there is no scuttle butt, just pure facts.
Perhaps you are just trolling the issue for someone to bite, I hope not.
regards, Mick