Another new member looking for help with model ID (Love Rock)

[MetalTele79]

Hi everyone. Just found and joined this forum as I recently picked up a Tokai Love Rock. Can anybody help me out with a model identification? In an '85 based on the serial number 50XXXX. The pickups are not original and it is currently wired with push/pull coil split volume knobs. It has a cherry sunburst flame top, one piece back and a bound body and neck with no nibs.

 

[Sigmania]

Welcome,

Assuming the top is laminate? Can you tell?

Is the back one piece or multiple pieces? May need to look in bright light.

Have you done an acetone test to see if it reacts?

 

[MetalTele79]

Welcome,

Assuming the top is laminate? Can you tell?

Is the back one piece or multiple pieces? May need to look in bright light.

Have you done an acetone test to see if it reacts?

Thanks for the reply.

The back is one piece. I have not done an acetone test. I just pulled the neck pickup and it looks like a solid flame cap as the flame extends downward to the mahogany.

 

[Sigmania]

Well that's a very good thing! Is there a PCB board in the control cavity?

 

[MetalTele79]

Well that's a very good thing! Is there a PCB board in the control cavity?

No PCB board but all the electronics have been replaced so there may have been one in the past. The neck is a Gibson R61 and the bridge is a mystery that says TTop Bridge X5 a date and a signature.

*levels adjusted to make the writing more distinguishable.

 

[MetalTele79]

Well that's a very good thing! Is there a PCB board in the control cavity?

No PCB board but all the electronics have been replaced so there may have been one in the past. The neck is a Gibson R61 and the bridge is a mystery that says TTop Bridge X5 a date and a signature.

*levels adjusted to make the writing more distinguishable.

 

[Sigmania]

Wow. So Gibson pickups. Some people love those T tops

 

[Paladin2019]

The back is one piece. I have not done an acetone test. I just pulled the neck pickup and it looks like a solid flame cap as the flame extends downward to the mahogany.

That's not necessarily true. There's a maple cap there for sure, but the surface could be a flame laminate. The only way to tell would be to check the join lines and the grain lines. If they line up on the top and on the walls of the pickup cavity then you have a solid top. If they don't match up then you have a laminate.

 

[Sigmania]

It’s really weird. In this period Tokai was kind of laminate crazy. LS80/100 were laminates.

If that’s really a solid flame top that would be something. I can see what looks like flame through the maple cap.

Can you post a pic along the center seam as Paladin suggested?

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like in 1985 only the LS200 had a solid flamed maple top.

https://vintagejapanguitars.com/tokai-1985-1986-catalogue/

Definitely check if the grain and seam vary going into the compartments.

 

[MetalTele79]

Thanks for all the replies. The grain lines going down into the pickup cavities match up with the flame on the top. I was having a hell of a time trying to get a photo of the transition because my phone kept trying to focus on different things. I'll pull the pickups again when I get my DSLR back off of my brother and can take a proper photo.

 

[Sigmania]

Good deal. It can be incredibly hard to tell. As Paladin2015 was saying, the tell is usually along the center seam. Veneer is rarely matched exactly at the center of the cap.

I was wondering if it could be an LS200, but that did not come in CS in the 1985/86 catalog. The rest of the LS models in the 1985 & 86 catalogs (60/80/100) are veneers.

Let us know if you can see if it is veneer.

1985 catalog

1985/86 catalog

 

[MetalTele79]

From that catalog photo it looks like the LS200 didn't come in CS.

 

[Sigmania]

Yep. I added that.

You may have a mystery on your hands. In this period there were some weird things that came out of the factory.

From your pic of the bridge pickup it sure looks like the flame is continuous into the cavity.

 

[Sigmania]

Check this thread for other guitars that were solid flame tops. Many were LS80s which were not supposed to be according to the catalogs.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22232

 

[Sigmania]

Note that that thread contains a few 1985 LS150 solid flametops that are not shown in those two catalogs.

1985 LS-150


1985 LS-150 , photo courtesy of Gottfried at tokaiguitar.de/


1985 LS-150 , photo courtesy of Gottfried at tokaiguitar.de/

 

[Sigmania]

You could also just look where that chunk is missing on the edge of the top.

Should show up there too if the grain is not continuous.

 

[Sigmania]

And 1985 LS200s.

1985 LS-200 - photo courtesy of Villager + japanguitars.co.uk


1985 LS-200


1985 LS-200 - photo courtesy of Villager + japanguitars.co.uk


1985 LS-200


1985 LS-200


1985 LS-200


1985 LS-200


1985 LS-200 - photo courtesy of Villager + japanguitars.co.uk

 

[Sigmania]

…and the bridge is a mystery that says TTop Bridge X5 a date and a signature.

*levels adjusted to make the writing more distinguishable.

Is that a date in 1969 possibly?

 

[MetalTele79]

Is that a date in 1969 possibly?

It's either 19 or 69 but I have no idea. I just pulled the neck pickup again and the center seam on the top lines up with the seam into the pickup cavity and the flame on the side matches with the top.

I appreciate all the info. Its been helpful to know what to look for.