which Tokai is compared to the Gibson Les Paul Standard??

Tokai guitar discussion

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Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:58 am

Axchisler wrote:Time capsule bump.

Where ya goin with this Diamond?

BTW St323; I'd say LS70 GT w MKII's :wink: .
I have absolutely no idea how that post of mine landed up here on this thread.
I thought I posted that in the Acoustics section.

CoachD
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Post by CoachD » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:46 pm

I'm going to give a slightly different opinion on the Gib vs Tok battle.

I think your location plays a big role in the argument based on costs.

here in the U.S. Gib R8's are selling for $1900-$2500 used on ebay all the time. Regular production standards are $1600-$2000 used. Compare that to a new ls150 for $1500 plus shipping and customs fees. I've been watching pretty closely, but have not seen many used Tokai's on ebay that are already in the US. But, if a used one was on ebay, i guess it'd be about $1200-$1300.

All that being said, if i ever get to Japan, I am certainly very interested in getting a great instrument while i am there that i can't readily get in the U.S.
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JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:37 pm

The LS-150 has one feature the R8 doesn't have - a 59 neck profile, so it is a bit thinner than the R8 which would be attractive for some who worry about the fat necks.

The Gibson USA LP Standard isn't in the same ballpark as the R8 and LS-150 due to weight relieving and its rocker tenon.

But I believe you are correct when suggesting that the R8 is the better deal for buyers in the US, and they will also have better re-sale.
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:11 am

Most of the time shipping from Japan to the US is around 100 - 120 USD and your customs is a bit hit and miss, a few of our members for the US regularly get guitars through with no charges at all. I would say a new LS-150 would still work out cheaper that a second hand R8 and it will hold its value reasonably well if you look after it.

Mick
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Post by mattim » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:06 am

JVsearch wrote:The LS-150 has one feature the R8 doesn't have - a 59 neck profile, so it is a bit thinner than the R8 which would be attractive for some who worry about the fat necks.

The Gibson USA LP Standard isn't in the same ballpark as the R8 and LS-150 due to weight relieving and its rocker tenon.

But I believe you are correct when suggesting that the R8 is the better deal for buyers in the US, and they will also have better re-sale.
Hi JVsearch. You are sending contradcting information about LS150 neck. In this thread you state that the neck is a 59 profile and on the other thread you stated something else.

"Current Tokai models:
R6 GT - LS95S or LS160S
R7 GT - LS85
R7 BB - LC195S (LC95S does not have ebony board)
R8 - LS150, LS90
R9 - LS135F, LS95F then high end ones
R0 - as above
"
In my opinion, my LS150 neck profile is pretty much similar to my LS85 neck. Comments.

Matti
Backyard of Parliament

Tokai TTE-55 A2G
Tokai HES180 2013
Tokai LS-150 VF 2009
Tokai FA 235 VF 2009
Also other 4-6-string instruments

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:30 am

mattim wrote:
JVsearch wrote:The LS-150 has one feature the R8 doesn't have - a 59 neck profile, so it is a bit thinner than the R8 which would be attractive for some who worry about the fat necks.

The Gibson USA LP Standard isn't in the same ballpark as the R8 and LS-150 due to weight relieving and its rocker tenon.

But I believe you are correct when suggesting that the R8 is the better deal for buyers in the US, and they will also have better re-sale.
Hi JVsearch. You are sending contradcting information about LS150 neck. In this thread you state that the neck is a 59 profile and on the other thread you stated something else.

"Current Tokai models:
R6 GT - LS95S or LS160S
R7 GT - LS85
R7 BB - LC195S (LC95S does not have ebony board)
R8 - LS150, LS90
R9 - LS135F, LS95F then high end ones
R0 - as above
"
In my opinion, my LS150 neck profile is pretty much similar to my LS85 neck. Comments.

Matti
No, that is only because the LS-150 looks like a current R8 and has almost all the same features, and since the guy wasn't bothered about the 58 neck profile it was fine to sub in the LS-150 for the 58 plain top. I also subbed in a couple of veneer flame top guitars for the 59 and 60 models because the guy wasn't bothered about veneer, but the LS-135F and LS-95F are not proper versions of the 59 LP, particularly the medium tenon LS-95F.

Those were just the matching Tokais given THAT posters requirements. If you want a Tokai with a fatter neck than the 59 profile you'll have to custom order it. They have decided that their approximation of a 59 profile is a good general size, and they are right, it's used on most models.

But hey, all this is pure guitar nerd stuff and not all that important. But it is important is that someone knows what they're buying, so that list of mine, when taken out of the context of the other thread is extremely misleading - don't rely on it (for the reasons given above). :)
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:34 am

All the neck profiles from the LS85 to the 150 seem the same to me....perfect, not too fat, not too thin.

mattim
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Post by mattim » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:50 am

JVsearch wrote:
mattim wrote:
JVsearch wrote:The LS-150 has one feature the R8 doesn't have - a 59 neck profile, so it is a bit thinner than the R8 which would be attractive for some who worry about the fat necks.

The Gibson USA LP Standard isn't in the same ballpark as the R8 and LS-150 due to weight relieving and its rocker tenon.

But I believe you are correct when suggesting that the R8 is the better deal for buyers in the US, and they will also have better re-sale.
Hi JVsearch. You are sending contradcting information about LS150 neck. In this thread you state that the neck is a 59 profile and on the other thread you stated something else.

"Current Tokai models:
R6 GT - LS95S or LS160S
R7 GT - LS85
R7 BB - LC195S (LC95S does not have ebony board)
R8 - LS150, LS90
R9 - LS135F, LS95F then high end ones
R0 - as above
"
In my opinion, my LS150 neck profile is pretty much similar to my LS85 neck. Comments.

Matti
No, that is only because the LS-150 looks like a current R8 and has almost all the same features, and since the guy wasn't bothered about the 58 neck profile it was fine to sub in the LS-150 for the 58 plain top. I also subbed in a couple of veneer flame top guitars for the 59 and 60 models because the guy wasn't bothered about veneer, but the LS-135F and LS-95F are not proper versions of the 59 LP, particularly the medium tenon LS-95F.

Those were just the matching Tokais given THAT posters requirements. If you want a Tokai with a fatter neck than the 59 profile you'll have to custom order it. They have decided that their approximation of a 59 profile is a good general size, and they are right, it's used on most models.

But hey, all this is pure guitar nerd stuff and not all that important. But it is important is that someone knows what they're buying, so that list of mine, when taken out of the context of the other thread is extremely misleading - don't rely on it (for the reasons given above). :)
Thanx for the clarification.

Matti
Backyard of Parliament

Tokai TTE-55 A2G
Tokai HES180 2013
Tokai LS-150 VF 2009
Tokai FA 235 VF 2009
Also other 4-6-string instruments

mattim
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Post by mattim » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:51 am

Diamond wrote:All the neck profiles from the LS85 to the 150 seem the same to me....perfect, not too fat, not too thin.
Totally agree ; -)

Matti
Backyard of Parliament

Tokai TTE-55 A2G
Tokai HES180 2013
Tokai LS-150 VF 2009
Tokai FA 235 VF 2009
Also other 4-6-string instruments

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:02 pm

JVsearch wrote:
mattim wrote:
JVsearch wrote:The LS-150 has one feature the R8 doesn't have - a 59 neck profile, so it is a bit thinner than the R8 which would be attractive for some who worry about the fat necks.

The Gibson USA LP Standard isn't in the same ballpark as the R8 and LS-150 due to weight relieving and its rocker tenon.

But I believe you are correct when suggesting that the R8 is the better deal for buyers in the US, and they will also have better re-sale.
Hi JVsearch. You are sending contradcting information about LS150 neck. In this thread you state that the neck is a 59 profile and on the other thread you stated something else.

"Current Tokai models:
R6 GT - LS95S or LS160S
R7 GT - LS85
R7 BB - LC195S (LC95S does not have ebony board)
R8 - LS150, LS90
R9 - LS135F, LS95F then high end ones
R0 - as above
"
In my opinion, my LS150 neck profile is pretty much similar to my LS85 neck. Comments.

Matti

But hey, all this is pure guitar nerd stuff and not all that important.
Most important statement I've read in years.

I was into all the nerdy guitar stuff until I picked up an LS85, it was then I realized that to match a GLP Standard all you needed was an 85, nothing more.

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:49 pm

Diamond wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
But hey, all this is pure guitar nerd stuff and not all that important.
Most important statement I've read in years.

I was into all the nerdy guitar stuff until I picked up an LS85, it was then I realized that to match a GLP Standard all you needed was an 85, nothing more.
You're 100% right IMO, but people have to talk about the details even more now because a lot of buying is done sight unseen these days. I'd suggest that is a major reason for nerd type discussions, and probably a big reason why forums like this exist! :lol:
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

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Post by Tompski » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:16 am

JVsearch wrote:
Diamond wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
But hey, all this is pure guitar nerd stuff and not all that important.
Most important statement I've read in years.

I was into all the nerdy guitar stuff until I picked up an LS85, it was then I realized that to match a GLP Standard all you needed was an 85, nothing more.
You're 100% right IMO, but people have to talk about the details even more now because a lot of buying is done sight unseen these days. I'd suggest that is a major reason for nerd type discussions, and probably a big reason why forums like this exist! :lol:
So are some of you saying there isn't a really discernable difference between something like an LS85 and the LS150 I have on order?

Thanks

T

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:58 am

Tompski wrote:So are some of you saying there isn't a really discernable difference between something like an LS85 and the LS150 I have on order?

Thanks

T
Hell no man!!!!

I would NEVER say that - I am a guitar snob, and always recommend going for the highest model you can afford (but don't borrow a lot of money).

LS-150 has a long tenon, nitro, one piece body, definite solid top, and better electronics (pots, switch and caps). It should also receive the better quality wood pieces. So that's quite a lot of extra stuff, and definitely worth it in my opinion.

However whether all that extra stuff adds up to way better tone than what you get on the LS-85/90/95F is difficult to say. My belief is that there will be an improvement although it may not be huge, but once that improvement is experienced it becomes VERY important, and worth the extra money. It would be good to compare the 150 to the lower models but with upgraded electronics. Also the finishes or the whole guitar might generally feel different even if the neck profiles are pretty much the same, the 150 may also be slightly lighter.

How long have you got to wait?
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:19 am

+ 1 to what JV said.

All I'm saying is, many guys look down on the LS85/90/95 models as if they're not in the same class as the 150s, I can assure you they are every bit as good...my buddy plans to sell his GLP Studio because it simply doesn't play, feel or sound as good as his LS85...with the cash he's buying a Cherry Burst LS95F.
And he can't pick a winner between the LS85 and his 95 GLP Standard...so imagine how good the LS150s are. :)

All the best for when you get it.

Tompski
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Post by Tompski » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:37 am

JVsearch wrote:
Tompski wrote:So are some of you saying there isn't a really discernable difference between something like an LS85 and the LS150 I have on order?

Thanks

T
Hell no man!!!!

I would NEVER say that - I am a guitar snob, and always recommend going for the highest model you can afford (but don't borrow a lot of money).

LS-150 has a long tenon, nitro, one piece body, definite solid top, and better electronics (pots, switch and caps). It should also receive the better quality wood pieces. So that's quite a lot of extra stuff, and definitely worth it in my opinion.

However whether all that extra stuff adds up to way better tone than what you get on the LS-85/90/95F is difficult to say. My belief is that there will be an improvement although it may not be huge, but once that improvement is experienced it becomes VERY important, and worth the extra money. It would be good to compare the 150 to the lower models but with upgraded electronics. Also the finishes or the whole guitar might generally feel different even if the neck profiles are pretty much the same, the 150 may also be slightly lighter.

How long have you got to wait?
I have ordered through a shop in London, via tokai uk but as I wanted a plain toboacco burst LS150 I was told it had to be a custom order as all the finishes available were very flashy quilt tops or flame, and I thought they were a little too much for me, so I have to wait until late January, , i have already paid for most of it by selling things that were laying around my music room gathering dust, such as pedals, an amp a lesser guitar so only ?35 left to pay and a bit of patience!!!

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