Paladin2019
Well-known member
space_114 said:
No it's not, and until you understand why you really shouldn't be arguing the point.
ZAKK WYLDE TOKAI BULLSEYE LES PAUL COPY
- Thread starter jobu77
- Start date
Help Support Tokai Forum:
No it's not, and until you understand why you really shouldn't be arguing the point.
Ok ... Talk is cheap so i have posted a link to my four Les Pauls , My Black Beauty EPI , My 2007 Gibson Standard and My 2005 Canadian Tokai/Fakai Goldtop and my 2004 Cdn Tokai / Fakai Zakk Wylde ... I can honestly say owning the best of all worlds the Gibson sounds the best , The Zakk Plays and feels the best followed by my Gold Top followed by my EPI Black Beauty ... all nice .. but . bang for the buck the Tokai / Fakai's win hands down ! Cheers !! :wink:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/space_114/Blower/P1150262.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/space_114/Blower/P1150262.jpg
space_114 said:
You really are pathetic, with your references to MIK Tokai v Fake, what a piss weak comparison.
You carry on here with your bandstanding about FAKES in threads, and have the nerve to say the wood in a MIK Tokai is crappy, and you say your FAKE is sooooo goooood! again....a piss weak comparison.
First of all, the MIK Tokai guitar is made that way with those materials to reflect the price at the shops. Futhermore it is a licensed Tokai, again, your comments are just lame, and I am sure most members here agree, you carry on like a total tosser.
It is not illegal to copy the shape of any guitar, re Gibson v PRS, your perspicacity in guitars is displayed in your ignorance in what is right and wrong.
So, pay and play your fake guitar/s, and STOP your trolling here about 'copies'.
I don't entirely agree with Grecoburst's comments.
But I do think MIK Tokais are stupid. Not quality-wise, (I wouldn't know anyway because I will never spend my money on one) but just as a really rubbish move. Great idea, use the Tokai name to sell a MIK guitar that you don't even build. Was there even a Tokai guy in that Korean factory to do QC? Why are they even Tokais? Maybe only one reason - they are made with permission. They didn't even come in much lower in price than the lowest Japan model.
They're made by some factory who tendered for a contract, so I can understand the argument when comparing them with the fakes, because, apparently the fakes are made by the same factory under a contract from somebody else! :lol:
But I do think MIK Tokais are stupid. Not quality-wise, (I wouldn't know anyway because I will never spend my money on one) but just as a really rubbish move. Great idea, use the Tokai name to sell a MIK guitar that you don't even build. Was there even a Tokai guy in that Korean factory to do QC? Why are they even Tokais? Maybe only one reason - they are made with permission. They didn't even come in much lower in price than the lowest Japan model.
They're made by some factory who tendered for a contract, so I can understand the argument when comparing them with the fakes, because, apparently the fakes are made by the same factory under a contract from somebody else! :lol:
JVsearch said:
We all know these fakes are made with better materials than a MIK or MIC Tokai, that is just obvious, when u know what the MIK and MIC Tokai materials used are, there is plenty of references to them here.
As for price? a base MIK / MIC Tokai retails around 48,000 yen and under, and a base MIJ Tokai around 92,000 yen, MIK / MIC are almost half the price.
Looks like MIK and MIC Tokai are here to stay, not much we can do about that, as for the FAKES, there will always be those folks, from time to time, who want these fakes to have their place on the Tokai shelves, by talking down MIK/MIC Tokai guitars, it seems, but, these FAKES are not Tokai's, unless Tokai Corporation say they are.
JohnA
Well-known member
greco_burst said:
Chill Greco_burst, the guy is entitled to an opinion, no need to strat name calling!
rayspang
Well-known member
And thats never going to happen because the distributor didn't pay Tokai the royalties on this production.
JohnA said:
Ok, done. 8)
Charlie Wardick
Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 18
- Reaction score
- 0
I've searched this forum, read all the posts about Fakai, however still unable to determine if the guitars sold a few years back by JSD that say "Manufactured under licence for Tokai Gakki Co. LTD Make in Korea" are Fakai.
I believe the answer is yes, but I don't know.
I believe the answer is yes, but I don't know.
JohnA said:greco_burst said:
Greco .. Yeh chill .. we are talking about guitars ..Its not like i am trying to p/u your boyfriend or anything ... Don't be a dink .... I am just giving my opinion and information i have researched as fact for anyone who gives a crap . .Do u own a real gibby ? a real Tokai ? and a couple of Fakis and an EPI .. I do .. amongst many others ... just a opinion from a guy with lot's of guitars .
Chill Greco_burst, the guy is entitled to an opinion, no need to strat name calling!
BlueThird
Well-known member
space_114 said:
If only that were the case, Space. You're also spitting out absolute drivel on a regular basis. As Paladin2019 said, if you can't understand the difference between copying and fraud, you shouldn't be arguing about it. But that's an incidental.
I'll state this as simply as possible, in the hope that you'll understand. A product is a Tokai if and only if Tokai Gakki Co Ltd says it is. If they wanted to, they could put a broomstick and six pieces of elastic on a fairy penguin and call it a Tokai Love Rock. And it would be. If anyone else tried the same thing, it would be a fake. No matter if they did it in the exact same factory, and no matter if they are or were once an authorised distributor of products made by or for Tokai Gakki. Equally, if someone tried to sell a Gibson Historic with a Tokai logo that would also be a fake Tokai.
Your opinion on the quality of the Canadian Fakais may well be right. Ditto your thoughts on MiK Tokais. But the Canadian Fakais are and always will be fakes and your idea that the MiK Tokais aren't 'real' Tokais is just plain wrong.
When it comes to the issue of whether a guitar is or isn't a Tokai the issue of quality is completely, utterly irrelevant; your opinion about its quality is of even less importance. The only question that matters is whether the company or individuals asking for the Tokai logo to be applied are the legal owners of that brand.
You like the Fakais, and you've got two of them. I'm happy for you. If you've got something else to say, feel free, but give it a rest on this, eh?
BlueThird said:
I wouldn't accept that contraption as a Tokai Love Rock, no matter how much they insisted on it being one. Instead, I would advise people to buy a Fakai because that would be a much better way of getting a Love Rock (or close enough anyway). :lol:
Haven't you noticed how fake stuff, copies, clones, reproductions are almost preferable to the real thing these days? It seems like that's what people want. :-?
JVsearch said:
I agree my objective all along was to provide some insight on the Cdn circumstance as many have these mainly LP's bearing the Tokai name and eventually when discoved they aren't exactly an authorized Tokai as my question was
- Well.. What the hell are they ? ... and this site provided me with some excellent information and pointed me in the right direction to find some answers...I never called them Tokai's and as for the copy vs reproductions .. Who care's not like any asian company has ethics when it comes to this topic when compared to the mighty $$$.. you won't find me crying this point because one asian company or another may have been duped slightly from a branding perspective. Since we now have beaten this dog to a pulp ...Can we now all agree to move on an argue something else ... ?? Women perhaps blondes vs brunetts or how about Real blondes vs fake ones ..... I have owned some really good fake ones i swear you would not be able to tell the difference from a playability perspective.... :wink:space_114 said:JohnA said:greco_burst said:
Greco .. Yeh chill .. we are talking about guitars ..Its not like i am trying to p/u your boyfriend or anything ... Don't be a dink .... I am just giving my opinion and information i have researched as fact for anyone who gives a crap . .
Chill Greco_burst, the guy is entitled to an opinion, no need to strat name calling!
hahahaha....a bit of tit for tat.....yep....u stick with your fakes...it will suit the noise you make....fake
space_114 said:my objective all along was to provide some insight on the Cdn circumstance as many have these mainly LP's bearing the Tokai name and eventually when discoved they aren't exactly an authorized Tokai as my question was
Your objective was to provide some insight on the Canadian circumstance...to who, us?
Did you consider that some of us actually speak to the President of Tokai, we are the insight, you didn't need to provide anything, you just needed to ask.
When you asked, "what the hell are they?"
We replied, they're fakes.
Your objective was to provide some insight on the Canadian circumstance...to who, us?
Did you consider that some of us actually speak to the President of Tokai, we are the insight, you didn't need to provide anything, you just needed to ask.
When you asked, "what the hell are they?"
We replied, they're fakes.
I diidn't ask , I already knew !! ? You speak to the Tokai President ?? if true what's that nub going to tell you that we all already do not know . Will he tell you at the time of the Canadain Fakais that he couldn't supply the Canadain Distributor and he got bypassed by the very same factory who was making his own guitars ? Will he tell you this factory was branding under several names including Tokai at the time . Did he tell you why they no longer use this factory and why ? Did he also tell you the quality of the guitars that came from the Korean factory varied from basic / decent to excellent depending on how much was agreed to be paid per unit mfg'd ? and to who I think not .... I would trust the "word" of the Tokai president if the case any further than i could dwarf toss him Im not trying to be an arse .. as i do appreciate this forum and the info the members within provide but some can't accept fact what i have stated in my threads as being Fact not Fiction .. in the end who cares they are just guitars.
[/quote]
Did you consider that some of us actually speak to the President of Tokai, we are the insight, you didn't need to provide anything, you just needed to ask.
When you asked, "what the hell are they?"
We replied, they're fakes.
I diidn't ask , I already knew !! ? You speak to the Tokai President ?? if true what's that nub going to tell you that we all already do not know . Will he tell you at the time of the Canadain Fakais that he couldn't supply the Canadain Distributor and he got bypassed by the very same factory who was making his own guitars ? Will he tell you this factory was branding under several names including Tokai at the time . Did he tell you why they no longer use this factory and why ? Did he also tell you the quality of the guitars that came from the Korean factory varied from basic / decent to excellent depending on how much was agreed to be paid per unit mfg'd ? and to who I think not .... I would trust the "word" of the Tokai president if the case any further than i could dwarf toss him
Im not trying to be an arse .. as i do appreciate this forum and the info the members within provide but some can't accept fact what i have stated in my threads as being Fact not Fiction .. in the end who cares they are just guitars.[/quote]Your objective was to provide some insight on the Canadian circumstance...to who, us?
Did you consider that some of us actually speak to the President of Tokai, we are the insight, you didn't need to provide anything, you just needed to ask.
When you asked, "what the hell are they?"
We replied, they're fakes.
I diidn't ask , I already knew !! ? You speak to the Tokai President ?? if true what's that nub going to tell you that we all already do not know . Will he tell you at the time of the Canadain Fakais that he couldn't supply the Canadain Distributor and he got bypassed by the very same factory who was making his own guitars ? Will he tell you this factory was branding under several names including Tokai at the time . Did he tell you why they no longer use this factory and why ? Did he also tell you the quality of the guitars that came from the Korean factory varied from basic / decent to excellent depending on how much was agreed to be paid per unit mfg'd ? and to who I think not .... I wouldn't trust the "word" of the Tokai president if the case any further than i could dwarf toss the little guy Im not trying to be an arse .. as i do appreciate this forum and the info the members within provide but some can't accept fact what i have stated in my threads as being Fact not Fiction .. in the end who cares they are just guitars.
[/quote]
Did you consider that some of us actually speak to the President of Tokai, we are the insight, you didn't need to provide anything, you just needed to ask.
When you asked, "what the hell are they?"
We replied, they're fakes.
I diidn't ask , I already knew !! ? You speak to the Tokai President ?? if true what's that nub going to tell you that we all already do not know . Will he tell you at the time of the Canadain Fakais that he couldn't supply the Canadain Distributor and he got bypassed by the very same factory who was making his own guitars ? Will he tell you this factory was branding under several names including Tokai at the time . Did he tell you why they no longer use this factory and why ? Did he also tell you the quality of the guitars that came from the Korean factory varied from basic / decent to excellent depending on how much was agreed to be paid per unit mfg'd ? and to who I think not .... I wouldn't trust the "word" of the Tokai president if the case any further than i could dwarf toss the little guy
Im not trying to be an arse .. as i do appreciate this forum and the info the members within provide but some can't accept fact what i have stated in my threads as being Fact not Fiction .. in the end who cares they are just guitars.[/quote]space_114 said:I wouldn't trust the "word" of the Tokai president if the case any further than i could dwarf toss the little guy..
Really?...well you're doing a pretty good job if you're not trying.
