Would Like info on Tokai Strats

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thejonester

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Hi,

I've owned a few Tokai les pauls (Japanese) and an es120 (which was awesome but I let it go.. :evil: )

Anyway, I'm totally new to Tokai strats. Could someone give me an idea what models to look out for which to avoid etc and how they compaire to Fenders etc

I know someone will be able to help... thanks in advance :p
 
Man, even the cheepies are good.

1985 custom edition 1970's style strat. Unfashionable logo (scrolling) poor pick ups, 3 piece soldi bodies BUT GREAT NECKS, vintage Gilmourish strat with a loely maple neck natural aging for the price of a squire strat,LOL
79 st-60, in swampy ash like sunbust, maple heaven of a neck, very little wear and tear, VERY vintagy pick up ("E stamped) Guitar feels OLD. Awsome, an absolute beauty for the price of a modern fender, NO CONTEST
79 st-50, relic like, worn neck,, paint peeling (not sure if it's genuine but I don't care) E U E pups, has a 1950's f;at twang thang going on, has honestly blown some players away, and they have been back for more goes of it. A very unique sound which in ohters hands can be awesome, I am strating to hit some good stuff on it. For the price of a 2nd hand modern fender.
1984 Prototype five star 50 in metallic red, matching head stock. For when the wifes away and I've had too much to drink , dirty, evilly, sabbathy, maideny, hawkwindy SHREDDY METALLY. Even I can be a rock god once in a while. Saying all that in the hands of a blues player it was a wonderful sound. Great rosewood slim neck. For the price of a fender switch, lead, strap and bag of picks.
Unplayed 82 Siver Star, Red, H pick ups (they are the best but that's a secret) Weird maple neck.

There's some gems out there man, honestly and some don't have to cost a lot or be high end models. I haven't found a fender that come close to these, I really know what a 1970's strat should do, what a 50's strat should do, a 60's, I'd never have got that ecperience from a fender. I now have a great bench mark when I go to buy a fender, cos it will have to beat some very colourful guitars.

Hope you enjoy your ride to strat world.
 
makaze said:
Man, even the cheepies are good.

1985 custom edition 1970's style strat. Unfashionable logo (scrolling) poor pick ups, 3 piece soldi bodies BUT GREAT NECKS, vintage Gilmourish strat with a loely maple neck natural aging for the price of a squire strat,LOL
79 st-60, in swampy ash like sunbust, maple heaven of a neck, very little wear and tear, VERY vintagy pick up ("E stamped) Guitar feels OLD. Awsome, an absolute beauty for the price of a modern fender, NO CONTEST
79 st-50, relic like, worn neck,, paint peeling (not sure if it's genuine but I don't care) E U E pups, has a 1950's f;at twang thang going on, has honestly blown some players away, and they have been back for more goes of it. A very unique sound which in ohters hands can be awesome, I am strating to hit some good stuff on it. For the price of a 2nd hand modern fender.
1984 Prototype five star 50 in metallic red, matching head stock. For when the wifes away and I've had too much to drink , dirty, evilly, sabbathy, maideny, hawkwindy SHREDDY METALLY. Even I can be a rock god once in a while. Saying all that in the hands of a blues player it was a wonderful sound. Great rosewood slim neck. For the price of a fender switch, lead, strap and bag of picks.
Unplayed 82 Siver Star, Red, H pick ups (they are the best but that's a secret) Weird maple neck.

There's some gems out there man, honestly and some don't have to cost a lot or be high end models. I haven't found a fender that come close to these, I really know what a 1970's strat should do, what a 50's strat should do, a 60's, I'd never have got that ecperience from a fender. I now have a great bench mark when I go to buy a fender, cos it will have to beat some very colourful guitars.

Hope you enjoy your ride to strat world.

Cheers dude!

Would you say theres justification to owning nitro (80's and up) over poly (50's etc).

I've owned nitro strats and poly strats and 1 of the poly finished sounded better!?!

Thanks again
 
Personally, I'd say nitro matters most on the neck, poly has a tendency to get slightly damp and sticky as it warms up. I've never been that convinced nitro affects the tone much, though it's hard to say as nitro finished guitars are most often top of the line and poly guitars are low-to-mid priced.

/M
 
Thanks for that, I'm not overly convinced that nitro has a massive effect on tone either... I think I try to find one that looks and feels right regardless of nitro or poly

Thanks for the reply :D
 
The general consensus is that nitro "breathes" so it allows the tone or vibration to be transferred better, i own both and really i don't find any difference at all except on the neck where i prefer nitro.

Mick
 
With an early Goldstar TST-50 you're still getting incredible value for money IMHO.
exactly the same instrument as a late Springy, steel trem block and great hardware in general.
The U-profile maple neck is on the chunky side, the rosewoods are a bit slimmer.

/Magnus
 
I have one of the few st-80's in Alder with nitro finish. To be honest, the guitar has never caught my imagination, I don't play it, never want to play it, it never generates buzz at my open jam night, compliments, admiration but not BUZZ, I supose the nitro burst finish on an Alder body doesn't look great, it's sort of a professory straight up guitar, whereas my othes have personality.

I wouldn't seek out nitro for nitro sake. My LS nitro is great, but i don't prefer it over my polly LS. Nitro is wasted on me.
 
thejonester said:
Hi,

I've owned a few Tokai les pauls (Japanese) and an es120 (which was awesome but I let it go.. :evil: )

Anyway, I'm totally new to Tokai strats. Could someone give me an idea what models to look out for which to avoid etc and how they compaire to Fenders etc

I know someone will be able to help... thanks in advance :p


Are you someone from Tokai UK or Coda Music, "thejonestar" ???
What's your name? Might know you on the forums maybe......
Just wondering.....Thanks................................................J

:D
 
leadguitar_323 said:
The general consensus is that nitro "breathes" so it allows the tone or vibration to be transferred better, i own both and really i don't find any difference at all except on the neck where i prefer nitro.

Mick

Yes I suppose your right regarding the nitro letting the wood breath, I'm looking at the early Tokais so maybe when considering the vintage ones the wood will have aged or seasoned over the years... maybe giving better a tone.

The Nitro ones are really hard to come by and I've seen a couple of poly ones... maybe I'll just go for one of those and hope for the best.

Cheers
 
SUSHI GUY said:
thejonester said:
Hi,

I've owned a few Tokai les pauls (Japanese) and an es120 (which was awesome but I let it go.. :evil: )

Anyway, I'm totally new to Tokai strats. Could someone give me an idea what models to look out for which to avoid etc and how they compaire to Fenders etc

I know someone will be able to help... thanks in advance :p


Are you someone from Tokai UK or Coda Music, "thejonestar" ???
What's your name? Might know you on the forums maybe......
Just wondering.....Thanks................................................J

:D

Hi,

No I'm not from Tokai UK, though I have dealt with them in the past and live 10 mins away from thier office.

I repair guitars in my spare time (2nd job) and buy loads!! I've only bought from coda music never really had any dealings with them other than that... though they seem ok... I got a Gison SG 61 reissue from them and a Gibson Les paul Standard... but I'm back on Tokais again!! I just prefer the necks and playability on the Tokais (japanese ones anyway).

I was a member of this forum in the early days under a different user name but changed my email address and forgot my login so joined again the other day. :p
 
leadguitar_323 said:
The general consensus is that nitro "breathes" so it allows the tone or vibration to be transferred better, i own both and really i don't find any difference at all except on the neck where i prefer nitro.

Mick
You know Mick I`ve never been able to understand this because wood does not "breathe".What it does do is absorb and release moisture depending upon the ambient temperature ,and atmospheric conditions.Does a nitro finish allow water molecules to pass through it more readily than poly,I doubt it,nitro seems to be just as impermeable as poly.Is it more pleasing from an aesthetic or tactile point of view?Well that`s another matter.Gabe
 
Hi Gabe , i agree, that wasn't my opinion, just what a lot of people say when referring to Nitro. I wonder if poly was around when the original Fenders and Gibbo's were made wheather it would have been used as it is a more durable finish?

Mick
 
leadguitar_323 said:
Hi Gabe , i agree, that wasn't my opinion, just what a lot of people say when referring to Nitro. I wonder if poly was around when the original Fenders and Gibbo's were made wheather it would have been used as it is a more durable finish?

Mick


you can bet it would have been used, and for no other reason than it is much quicker than nitro when trying to get product out the door ...............
 
Hi,

Just found this which is quite interesting;

There are several myths flying around about nitrocellulose lacquer guitar finishes. Many are simply inaccurate, others are outright false. I'll start with the worst ones.

1)"Nitro is made from wood so it allows the wood to breathe and resonate naturally, improving the tone." This statement is generally false. Nitrocellulose is made from cellulose, which is also what wood is made of. The manufacure of nitrocellulose rarely uses cellulse, or plant cell material, from trees, but rather cotton which is much more easily nitrated. But that's not the worst part of this statement. Saying Nitrocellulose allows wood to "breathe" because it's manufactured from similar raw material is about like saying you should be able to breathe water because it's 80% oxygen by weight and you breathe oxygen. Nitrocellulose lacquer paints were in fact developed by DuPont in the 1920's specifically NOT to breathe, but to be a sealant against the forces of nature for automotive applications.

I'm not saying Nitrocellulose Lacquer finishes aren't good finishes, and aren't good for a guitar's tone, but they DON'T allow the wood to "breathe". In fact, the wood in your guitar's body stopped "breathing" within hours of the tree being cut down; it's dead now.

2)"Nitro takes weeks or even months to properly cure." This statement is utterly false. Nitrocellulose lacquers do not cure, but are evaporative finishes, which no matter how long they have been solid can be redissolved in the original solvents. When something cures, it can no longer be dissolved in it's original solvents, like epoxy or concrete, although you may be able to dissolve it in acid. To test this, splash some lacquer thinner on your friend's mint 1957 Stratocaster. No don't: he'd probably sue you. Lacquers dry to the touch relatively quickly, but then take weeks, or even months to dry completely, leading to the misconception that they "cure".

3)"Nitro will improve the tone of your guitar." This statement is misleading. If you were to take that 80's polyester finished electric guitar and spray nitrocellulose lacquer on top of it, nothing will improve whatsoever. What makes nitro a good finish is that it is very thin, so it does less to get in the way of the natural vibrations of the wood, which imparts a more full tone than a thick polyester finish.

The fact is that Nitro is a good guitar finish, and it's what was used back in the 50's and 60's. From the early 70's in to the 90's thick polyester finishes were the norm, which do sound somewhat "dead" and "lifeless" when compared to older nitro finishes. The advantage that they had was that they were very durable and shiny. Most of today's better intruments use a very thin polyurethane finish that sounds much closer to an older nitro finish than the thick polyester finishes, while still being very durable.

The real truth is that the finish on an electric guitar will only play a very small role in the overall tone. The pickups, bridge, neck wood, neck thickness, nut material, body wood, body shape, string guage and the player himself will each have at least as much to do with the tone as the finish, if not considerably more. What's more is that it isn't what nitro is made of that makes it a good finish, it's just that it's very thin, especially when compared to it's direct replacement polyester and allows the guitar's body to resonate more, giving slightly more fullness and depth to the tone.

What's bad about nitrocellulose lacquers is that they are very toxic, and have in fact been outlawed for use as an automotive finish throughout most, if not all, of the United States even by auto refinishers for that reason. They are still legal as a furniture finish, and can be bought in many states for that purpose.

But there is nothing magical about Nitro. A thin acrylic lacquer finish will be basically indistinguishable from nitro except that it won't yellow and crack over time. Oil finishes such as linseed or tung oil will resonate just as much, if not more, and can be very beautiful espcially when used in conjunction with a stain. Thin modern polyurethane finishes do not hinder tone nearly as much as the older polyester finishes and are much, much more resitant to chipping and scratching than nitrocellulose, and in fact, when used on a guitar with a high quality neck and bridge, high quality pickups, etc ... will have a superior tone to a guitar with a nitro finish and a cheap neck, bridge and pickups.

... kind of what people were saying here really

:D cheers
 
Very informative post, the only thing i disagree with is that a poly finish will yellow, mainly on white guitars but it definitely will yellow on a white or off white guitar, actually i have one that has aged very nicely... :)

Mick
 
mrsuspend said:
With an early Goldstar TST-50 you're still getting incredible value for money IMHO.
exactly the same instrument as a late Springy, steel trem block and great hardware in general.
The U-profile maple neck is on the chunky side, the rosewoods are a bit slimmer.

/Magnus

I agree with all that Magnus. My maple neck Goldstar is chunky but I find it easy to play even though I have small hands. Up to now, I've never been able to figure out whether it's a soft V or a U.

I used some thin lead solder off a roll to make a template. The solder keeps it's shape when removed from the back of the neck and this is what I discovered : The treble side of the neck is a U and the thumb side is a soft V

:eek: serious ergonomic consideration from Tokai going on here
 
thejonester said:
What's bad about nitrocellulose lacquers is that they are very toxic, and have in fact been outlawed for use as an automotive finish throughout most, if not all, of the United States even by auto refinishers for that reason. They are still legal as a furniture finish, and can be bought in many states for that purpose.

I agree with most of what was said, although some of it was just splitting hairs, people mean "dry" when they say "cure" regarding their guitars.

The toxic nature of nitro is true, but a couple of guitar builders that I know tell me that poly is even more toxic, and they don't use it, ever. It's possible that because poly dries quicker it has a smaller window for being toxic, so on safety grounds that is the better product to use. However, while you're spraying the stuff poly could be more toxic? Just a theory.
 
I've seen this subject discussed on other forums, & some real crap was written - but almost everything in this thread seems about right to me. Good old Tokai forum yet again!

I reckon nitro is nicer & feels better, but it does tend to cost a lot more money. My ST80 does feel nicer than an ST50, but it's not a big difference. But an ST80 will cost maybe 2 or 3 times as much as one of the cheaper models. You pays your money & you takes your choice really.

If you can get down to the next Forum Convention/get together, there should be a good selection for you to try, like at the one we held in Leeds. We had 8 Goldstars ST40/50/55s & 2 Springy ST80s to compare.

Mike
 
stratman323 said:
I've seen this subject discussed on other forums, & some real crap was written - but almost everything in this thread seems about right to me. Good old Tokai forum yet again!

I reckon nitro is nicer & feels better, but it does tend to cost a lot more money. My ST80 does feel nicer than an ST50, but it's not a big difference. But an ST80 will cost maybe 2 or 3 times as much as one of the cheaper models. You pays your money & you takes your choice really.

If you can get down to the next Forum Convention/get together, there should be a good selection for you to try, like at the one we held in Leeds. We had 8 Goldstars ST40/50/55s & 2 Springy ST80s to compare.

Mike

Hi,

Yes that sounds pretty cool, where is the next one?

I've seen some of the footage on you tube... some of the guitars looked sweet!

Cheers
 
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