How to confirm age of a Jazz Sound

[Slimbo77]

I just bought a Tokai jazz sound fretless on eBay, after doing a bit of research. I’m pretty excited, but wondering whether I should manage my expectations.

From the reading I did, it looks like it’s a 1981 JB85. The Jaco copy model. And it seems to be in pretty good condition for it’s age. A little too good maybe. I wasn’t able to prove its age, but it seems to have several hall marks of an ‘81 model. The SN is 6 digits beginning with 1. The headstock is ‘lawsuit’ era. The tokai font is of that era. However, it has a badass bridge which the seller says was an owner upgrade by a previous owner. I have seen a few newer models that come with a badass bridge installed, so that raised a question mark. I also know that Japanese market guitars retained the fender shape headstock, so the shape of that may not be evidence to date it.

So, not 100% certain of the age, but I was sure enough to hit the buy now button. I wasn’t really too bothered about getting a bargain and at £399 it was worth a gamble.

Can anyone give any other pointers for verifying age?

I have read that they are up there, in quality terms, as USA fenders. Are they really that good? And if it turns out this is not from that golden era, is the quality consistent in newer guitars?

I’ve barely heard a bad word about tokai, since I heard about them. Are they all that?

Anyway, I’m new to the forum but will report back when it arrives, for anyone that’s interested. Pics to follow.

Thanks In advance for any info/ advice.

Cheers
Paul

 

[mdvineng]

Let's hope it is a real 80's version. 80 and 81 are 7 digit serial numbers. 82 on are 6 and L+5.

Can you post the ebay link? Here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokai-Jazz-Sound-fretless-Bass-1980s-Japan-/294813890690?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Pictures are poor but it has the correct colour scheme with no pickguard.

 

[Slimbo77]

My inability to count is a factor here. It is in fact a 7 digit number. SN: 1014398

Here’s the link… I know, I know… I should probably have asked these questions prior to purchase, but I’m impulsive


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tokai-Jazz-Sound-fretless-Bass-1980s-Japan-/294813890690?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

 

[mdvineng]

81 number 8)

 

[Sigmania]

Here is the ‘81 catalog scan of this model.

Why would an ‘81 have that decal on the headstock? Have you opened it up yet? If not, take lots of pictures when you do.

 

[mdvineng]

My 81 vsb has that decal but you can see at the correct angle of view that there was an earlier spaghetti decal by the contours of the lacquer. I'm thinking that these were held back from shipment during the legal processes going on at the time or just had a decal change to avoid future conflict?

 

[Sigmania]

Fascinating. Thanks!

By the way, this fretless 85 is shown in the spring 1982 catalog, but I’m not seeing a description of it. Was there a conflict relative to Jaco? I believe he died around this time

 

[mdvineng]

Doubt it, as died in 87.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks.

Saving the pictures since this is an unusual one.

 

[Slimbo77]

It should arrive in the next day or two, so I’ll post some more pictures when it does.

Interesting point re: the decals. I hadn’t spotted that, but yeah that might suggest later than 81.

Would there be any cases where the 7 digit SN would be on a later bass?

Thanks very much for the info and the old catalogues. Really interesting.

 

[Sigmania]

The vintage Fender style numbering system (below) was introduced Feb. 1, 1982

So L+5digits for that guitar.

● Earthquake Early Warning ● About serial numbers

THE SCOOP

We are finally here. The shocking Tokai Flat Top series. Even the serial number has been completely reprinted !!

What history has revived here. The weight proof of the era from the birth of the electric guitar to the establishment of the dung era-serial number. In the Tokai Flat Top series, the serial number of this traditional model is also beautifully reproduced. The serial number of the same number of digits is engraved on the Tokai electric guitar as it is the symbol of each age that has been carved since the birth of the electric guitar. TE, ST, PB, JB and Ss, these serial numbers are reprinted as shown in the table on the left. Only the Tokai Flat Top series can deliver the perfect replica model that you have dreamed of. In addition, it will be fully implemented from the guitar & pace of the product on February 1, 1982.


1948 ~ 1954 MODEL
3 or 4digits-on bridge plate
* TE80 is originally this, but in Tokai, although the basic model is 1948 model, only the serial number is treated as 1955 or later from the viewpoint of the perfection of the guitar.

1954 ~ Pre-1956 MODEL
4digits-on neck plates.
0000-
Maple 1 Piece Neck Specifications
ST80, 100120. TE80, 120.

1956 ~ 1960 MODEL
5 digits-on neck plates
00000-
Maple 1 Piece Neck Specifications
ST50, 60. TE50, 70. PB80.

1960 ~ 1964 MODEL.
L + 5 digits-on neck plates.
L00000 ~
All Rosewood (Flat / Earl) Fingerboard neck specifications.
ST50R, 60R, 70R, 80R, 100R, 120R. TE50R, 70R, 80R, 120R. PB70R, 80R. JB45R, 60R, 80R, 85FLR, 120R.

1964/1965 ~ 1976 MODEL
6 digits-on neck plates.
000000-
Random neck specifications.
ST70. PB70. TE200R. SS60, 60R. PB40, 40R, 48, 48R, 60, 60R

1976 ~ MODEL
7 digits-on head stock
0000000-
SS series (excluding SS60 and 60R) are stamped on the head.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26114&start=15

 

[Slimbo77]

About the decals… the seller mentioned that there is a faded/removed decal underneath, which can be felt and seen in the right light. Obviously can’t be seen from the photos, so I’ll see how that looks when it arrives.

 

[Sigmania]

About the decals… the seller mentioned that there is a faded/removed decal underneath, which can be felt and seen in the right light. Obviously can’t be seen from the photos, so I’ll see how that looks when it arrives.

Wow! You got a pretty special bass for a great price. Congrats!

Spaghetti logo decals can be had, but the story of that change is almost more interesting.

Please post pics at an angle when you can.

 

[Sigmania]

I was wrong, this model is in the spring 1982 catalog.

1964 MODEL JB120YSR ¥ 120,000 The highest grade model of the JB series that we would like to recommend to professionals who are active in crossover. The Jacaranda fingerboard, Sen 1-piece body, and cashew finish are truly professional. A professional-oriented super bass with a rich sense of everything.


1960 MODEL JB85YSR-FL ¥ 85000 Jaco Pastorius Freak Long-awaited grooved fretless model. The sticky deep bass and the exquisite tone full of jazz flavor are attractive. High-grade specifications with a slim narrow neck, alder body, and lacquer finish with a flat rose fingerboard. The ordering system is adopted, and the production period takes about one month.


1964 MODEL JB65-NR ¥ 65000 Unrivaled playability that pushes the limits of solid base. A contemporary model that boasts a rich sound variation. The tight and dynamic deep bass is just a jazz sound.


1964 RARE MODEL JB50-MRR ¥ 50000 * Like the head stock color finished model known as the most maniac rare model of the 1960s, the JB50 has the same finish as the body on the head stock. The outstanding color combination is perfect for individual bass players. (This model is based on JB45.)


1964 MODEL JB45-OWR ¥ 45,000 High performance/cost model, JB45, recommended for middle class age. Body & neck, hardware that inherits the functions of the luxury model as it is. High quality jazz sound does not choose the music genre.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26114&start=30

 

[Sigmania]

"The ordering system is adopted, and the production period takes about one month."

Not sure what this means... Not sure if this was about the serial numbers, or if it was a special order piece??

Had not noticed that before at the end of the description.

 

[Sigmania]

 

[Sigmania]

Interesting that the catalog describes a "1960 Model" with a flat (slab) rosewood board, but yours seems to have the more modern radiused veneer board. Just noticed that.

Mysterious bass. But super cool.

 

[mdvineng]

As it is model specific, I would assume it is ordering process time. Fretlless basses are a rare item.

 

[mdvineng]

ghost of the Spaghetti 7 on my VSB80 1981

 

[Sigmania]

That is wild. And very cool.