What's It Worth?

[Sigmania]

What do you all think about asking folks who come on the forum specifically to mine it, and its members, for information so they can sell a guitar they know nothing about, and do not care to keep, to donate to the forum to keep it going in exchange for help on its value?

Getting a bit tired of helping folks who I think are interested in the guitar they own only to find they are just trying to see what they can get out of a potential buyer.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Exactly my thoughts last night. Asking for a donation seems fair to me but so far I struggle with thinking about the practical side of it.

If I see that right our (not necessarily everyone's though) interest is gathering information, seeing as many guitars as possible (even if it's just pics), hoping for new jigsaw puzzle pieces and maybe also honing IDing skills. Occasionally, this brings up something we haven't seen before, something with information value. I think we wouldn't want to stifle that in any way, even at the risk of being "exploited" as a free value appraisal service.

I think we're basically interested in all guitars, with the probably less rewarding ones being those that come up most often - the unidentifiable ones, the non-Japanese production of some legit or non-legit kind of cheapos, and only the forensics on fakes is mildly interesting (to me, can't speak for everyone here). With all that in mind, I wonder what the right time and reason/circumstances might be to ask for a donation? Donation for identification, for a value estimation or both?

- It's hard to predict what their intention is before doing much of the work to help them finding out "what I have there". It can be also hard to predict whether or not that could bring up some information value for the research side of things. Of course we can ask them what their intention is, at the risk of people seeing through the question and answering it accordingly.

- If we want to ask for a donation for IDing, it could be as easy as spotting the first pictures and judging whether or not the information exchange will be unilateral from the forum to them, then asking for a donation. The question is, what is the threshold of information value, or in other, less cryptic words - what do we have to see on the first pictures to ask for a donation? Vintage vs. contemporary? MIJ vs MISomeplace else? Cheap vs expensive? Obvious vs. obscure? Edit, important one...: Post count?

- If we ask for donations for value appraisals, what are the criteria to assess the value (are there any needed?) beyond today's seat of the pants? Are there risks or ramifications to fear? "But the guys at the TF said it's worth more/less than that!!"

I don't mean to make this more complicated than it should be tho, I'm just sharing what went through my mind about this, and by "we" and "us" I mean 90% "you".

 

[Sigmania]

Well, I am not trying to shake anyone down. I have heard of at least one person on another platform that is doing that and it makes me want to barf.

I am happy to help folks with their guitars. I do it every day. The rub is once you realize they are just gong to sell it. Now instead of helping a fellow guitar owner, I am helping a seller with a financial transaction. It is transactional.

That is when the idea to suggest a donation came up for me because these folks seem to be all about money ultimately, and not really interested in Tokais.

So since that is the game they are playing, I thought that is how they can participate here.

Just thinking out loud at this point.

This is an old problem on this site. Many people have left for this very reason. It becomes tedious.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Well, I am not trying to shake anyone down.

I think I (and everyone else) understood that, your post lacked all the signs of meaning the opposite.

The rub is once you realize they are just gong to sell it. Now instead of helping a guitar owner, I am helping a seller with a financial transaction. It is transactional.

Sure. I get that they often don't even know what to enter in a search engine to find out on their own, even if they wanted to, so it would be unfair to assume that they're all just lazy. I also get that many don't understand intuitively why their actual intention of getting a free value appraisal service to get rid of what's the topic of a special interest forum, is not the most fun thing to do for the members of that special interest forum.

As soon as it becomes obvious that the work involved with that is not about the guitar but about selling it, without any contributions to the forum to be expected in return, it seems more than legitimate to ask for a donation to keep that forum alive.

This is an old problem on this site. Many people have left for this very reason. It becomes tedious.

I see that quite often on several platforms (also not only guitar related), and it definitely becomes a trigger for some people when the frequency of such posts increases. It probably really is somewhat inconsiderate behavior, but I also understand how it smacks like people taking the big anonymous servant "internet" for granted to have their cake and eat it, or like they think they do you a favor when they show you what they found in the garage.... Asking for a donation could even be helpful in this context?

 

[Tsjackson]

I’m a low posting, low knowledge tokai fan, and it’s pretty amazing reading the threads where you guys accurately identify a guitar from a few pictures.

I wish I could be of any help whatsoever on any of the threads on here but really, there is absolutely nothing I could add that you don’t already know. In fact just today sigmania looked at a springy im interested in, hugely appreciated thank you.

I like reading all the info, seeing all the pictures, retaining any information I can. I’m a fan of tokai as a brand, vintage and new, hopefully I’m not taking advantage of the available knowledge when I ask questions pertaining to a guitar I’m interested in.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

hopefully I’m not taking advantage of the available knowledge when I ask questions pertaining to a guitar I’m interested in.

... buying. Or just looking at it, having plenty of GAS. That's the big difference and I hope that this is clear - it's not about post count, how much knowledge you have to share or anything, it's about why you are here and why you stay here.

 

[Sigmania]

I’m a low posting, low knowledge tokai fan, and it’s pretty amazing reading the threads where you guys accurately identify a guitar from a few pictures.

I wish I could be of any help whatsoever on any of the threads on here but really, there is absolutely nothing I could add that you don’t already know. In fact just today sigmania looked at a springy im interested in, hugely appreciated thank you.

I like reading all the info, seeing all the pictures, retaining any information I can. I’m a fan of tokai as a brand, vintage and new, hopefully I’m not taking advantage of the available knowledge when I ask questions pertaining to a guitar I’m interested in.

Oh you are fine. You are just the kind of member we all like.

I am referring to the folks that pop in, ask a bunch of questions about a guitar they somehow got, create a frenzy, then say they are selling it, they don’t really care about it beyond what they can use in a listing, and you never hear from them again.

 

[guitar hiro]

any time anyone ask me what something is worth I just make it easy on everyone involved and tell everyone the truth.

It's worth what any one person is willing to pay for it; period .......

 

[Sigmania]

Yep. That is what I have been doing ever since I saw you do that some time back.

 

[Sigmania]

 

[ATO]

It's inevitable that forums will get these kind of what's it worth posts, it's the same on FB. On the positive side it's good that the guitar will move onto someone who wants it, they might find this forum as a result of trying to find out about the guitar and stick around. Swings and roundabouts. But I do get your point that it can be frustrating.

 

[Sigmania]

So far, this is my favorite response. Homer said this in a recent thread helping out someone with a non-descript 12 string.

Homer J. Simpson:

"If you found this information useful, please consider donating a few bucks to help keeping this forum alive, thank you!"

Wondering if we can place that over the door as you enter.

 

[Sigmania]

I just changed the signature on my profile to a modified version of Homer's comment.

If you found this information helpful, please consider a donation to the Tokai forum to help keep it alive. Thanks!

Hope you don't mind me borrowing your idea Homer.

Now everywhere I make/or have made a post it leaves that message... Pretty cool.

 

[frehley76]

I read this thread yesterday and became a supporter, otherwise I didn't really know it was a thing, I did donate a singular time once when asked in my inbox though. I do not post a lot but I do read a lot so I have no problem supporting it.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Hope you don't mind me borrowing your idea Homer.

Not at all. Since this is a never seen before and also totally innovative work of poetry I'm only asking for modest 97% royalties (also zero firstborns this time, because Christmas and all). j/k

 

[Old Puppy]

Probably inevitable, but keep in mind that the buyer of that guitar is also likely to visit the forum for information so it may ultimately result in a more sincere interaction than just being about the cash.

 

[Sigmania]

Good point.