Wanna be one of You - need help.

[epivox]

Hi everybody,

as you can see, I'm an absoloutely greenhorn at this forum. First of all I wanna introduce myself. I am 44 Years old live in Germany and love Music. Thats why I play guitar in a cover band. We do the main Rock stuff from the 70th to present. I played guitar in my youth and 4 years ago I reentered the guitar heaven and started to play again. Now Im getting better and better so that I decided to look for some guitar to be happy. My equip today is as follows:

Fender strat American Standard 2008
Adams 1597 Accoustic
Epiphone LP Standard 2006 (with SH-4; SH-2)
Noname Strat est 1975
Marshall DSL50
Tubetown Rex Pro 2x12 Greenbacks
Vox VT15
Boss GT10

So I am looking for a new LP model (becaus the sound of my Epi isn't as good as a LP can be) and first I thougt it must be a Gibson (what else). But I am not fixed on Brands. I am really open. I started to collect Information obout LP's and the result was - It must Be a TOKAI. So far so good. Today I went to a dealer who has two LS-85 on Stock (Black; honey). As I heard from the Disrti the two are brand new and still there since a few days. My first impression was, that it was taylored very nice. not really any issues. So I took the first one and started playing - what the hell is that (I know what you think - I was fascinated - NONONO). The Steup of the honyblond was a mess. Strings were miles away from the frets. Trus was not correct adjusted - big sh..!!!!! And it didn't stay tuned (I think because it was too new). Strings were a little sticky and dirty. So what shall I say - that was my first Impression with a Tokai.
I took the second one - the black. Adjustment seems much better. But starting from the 5th fret Bass Strings were snarring (is this the right word for that??). I played one hour and adjusted the bridge a little. But there was no WOW effect. (I must say, that the environment in the store was not silent and not good for testing).

My first experience was a little unsatisfying. But here are hundreds of lucky users and I cant belive that there not need to be better models. I pleased the Dealer to adjust the Guitars and I will come back the next days. Problem is, that my epiphone is very, very well adjusted and has a good playability - but I want better Sound. So I compare the setup with the Tokai ant that shall be much better.

My Qestions:

Did you ever had this kind of experiences or just had I bad luck?
The inlays have black dots on every corner from tayloring and fill - is it normal? (my cheep epi dont have this)
If I want to spent 800-1400? (est 1150 - 2000$) depending on the model what would you prefer? Buy an older model or a new one between LS-85 and 150?
Problem is, that I need to buy in europe because of shipment and Tax (comlete 25% - 35% uplift)

Yes I know - I can read the posts. And I did. But now I know less than before

Please Help.

Regards
Dieter

 

[JohnA]

Hi Dieter and welcome!

I think you have been unlucky as most Tokais do not have any of the issues you describe. For a great sounding and playing Les Paul look no futhur than a LS85F, and higher models up to a LS150, the differences are cosmetic and don't affect the way it sounds or plays.

Try checking the forum classifieds for some bargains rather than buying new and save some money

In my opinion the old high-end models (LS80+ from 1979 - 1982) are better then the new ones, but they also cost a lot more.

 

[Ozeshin]

Hey welcome to the forums..
Try this German site....
http://www.tokaiguitar.de/produktdetail.php?id=11
(Commision plz Togps)

 

[SUSHI GUY]

i think you be completely happy if you buy the LS150 especially.......
all the japan made tokais are great, they wont turn you down never!
LS90 and LS150 are always the best of the bests.
especially LS150 is still an unbelievable package for its price.
its got all the gibson R8 specs basically w/tasty brown case!
anyways, tokai helps you to be very happy surely......gday!

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/tokaigakki/products/premium/ls150.html

buy it from japan directly, you can choose one from many and not a lot of work.
i think its still alot cheaper than buying from the euro dealers......

 

[Geardog]

It is great that you have an open mind. I like many different brands, and also learning about the MIJ guitars on this site.

Welcome

 

[epivox]

@Sushi Guy,

[buy it from japan directly, you can choose one from many and not a lot of work.
i think its still alot cheaper than buying from the euro dealers......[/quote]

I see you are located in China an I think total costs are much cheaper. The Issue is that here in Germany I must add shipment (150-250US$) and Duty/Tax (factor 1,23). You can get new 150th for est 1300Euro (1880US$) in Europe.
If I want one from Japan directly the maximum in Price can be 1300$ (900?) to have the same as in Europe because of uplift. That ist realy a problem.

On the other hand I have seen, that Tokai is only selling directly (if I'm not false). Others cant deliver.

Or do you have a link for me where I can buy this excellent stuff.

thanks,
Dieter

 

[Ozeshin]

AHAHAHA....
Located in China.....he's actually a wandering Monk who roams from Japan to China spreading his Tokai-ness to the masses.
One days he's in Japan...the next day he jogs to China....and THEN he swims to California
We lub him all the same though :roll:

 

[epivox]

????????????????

what does this mean? Is it a running gag her in that forum? Im not familiar with the history so please tell me.

cheers
D.

 

[Ozeshin]

Yes a bit of an "In-joke" :lol:

 

[Diamond]

epivox

There was nothing wrong with the LS85 you played in the store, except for the fact that the guitar had travelled halfway round the world through different weather conditions and the 'setup' needed tweaking....the wood moves and the Tokai factory setup changes.

No guitar store should display or try to sell a guitar if the guitar is not reasonably well setup.
If you play a PRS or R8 Historic and the setup is a mess, you'll think it's a badly made guitar.

Ask that store to set the guitar up to your specs and I bet you'll have a different opinion on the guitar the next time you play it.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Sushi guy {joe} is currently in California, he lives in Japan and studies in the US....


Mick

 

[SUSHI GUY]

hello epiman, tokai joe/sushi guy here........
cant say how much cheaper it can be than buying it in germany but try this store and hope it ends good! its one of the top 5 gtr dealers in japan and they do good jobs lately. marcusman on the forum just imported his LS150 lately and had no problemos whatsoever and he is since so happy actually too happy about it, he is telling everyone "whats for the love?" or something...... anyways its a very simple and possibly a better way than the german dealer way so plesae try. good luck and hope you have a very cool one!!!

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/english/

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/tags/search/1/0/168.html

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/tags/search/1/0/168-3258.html

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14375&start=0

 

[vikingblues]

So I took the first one and started playing - what the hell is that (I know what you think - I was fascinated - NONONO). The Steup of the honyblond was a mess. Strings were miles away from the frets. Trus was not correct adjusted - big sh..!!!!! And it didn't stay tuned (I think because it was too new). Strings were a little sticky and dirty. So what shall I say - that was my first Impression with a Tokai.
I took the second one - the black. Adjustment seems much better. But starting from the 5th fret Bass Strings were snarring (is this the right word for that??). I played one hour and adjusted the bridge a little. But there was no WOW effect. (I must say, that the environment in the store was not silent and not good for testing).

I haven't had experience of a bad set up Tokai in a shop, but the shops in Scotland don't sell the MIJ Tokais. Thankfully Richtone exists in the UK and the Tokai from them was beautifuuly set up.

I think it's not unusual for a shop to have badly set up guitars to try. I am surprised these days if a guitar I try in a shop IS well set up. Anyone would thonk they don't want to make sales. My most recent experience included loose control knobs and input jack and strings so high you could almost slide your fingers under them

I can honestly say the best set up guitars I have had over the past 10 years have either been used guitars bought privately or new guitars purchased on line. I have even had a budget guitar on-line from Guitarbitz who do a full set up (all steps of this are detailed on their site) and it made the set up of the "quality" guitars in the shops look shoddy.

I know the shops are under commercial pressure, but we know ourselves it really doesn't take a great deal of time to at lease get a decent set up.

Plus as you say the shop environment is often very bad for testing a guitar properly. If you can't hear properly what the guitar is doing and it's badly set up too the whole excercise is a total waste of time.

 

[Whoosh]

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum as well, been reading it for a little while though

Basically, all has been said. The shop you visited just dropped those 2 guitars from the box to the shop without giving them a proper setup. To be honest, if I buy from a shop like that they have to give me a darn good reason to do so (i.e. be cheap....) I've bought guitars that were poorly setup, as long as they are build right I can do the setup myself, but like I said, they had better be cheaper than the competition

If you are in Germany, you could check out Tokaiguitar.de or even Richtone in the UK. Their prices are good and shipping within the EU is cheap. Only read good things about the guitars they sell, they all seem to be good and setup properly.

My Tokai story; I bought a used 2005 ES-100 in Japan. Deadmint condition, to be honest I could only tell it was used because of the pickmarks on the protective plastic on the the pickguard (yes, that was still on it) Shipping was around 100 EUR, taxes and stuff around 23% indeed. All in all, I have got a deadmint 2005 ES-100 for a whole lot cheaper than a new ES-110/125 (which I think are the current modelnumbers for the same specs) would cost me, either import or bought in Europe.

What surprised me most of all was the setup. The action is very very low without any hint of nasty stuff. Plays super easy.

As for buying a new one from Japan; a LS150 including shipping and taxes works out at around EUR 1300 from www.kurosawagakki.com. A LS95F from the same seller would be around EUR 900. Check the Richtone prices, they seem to be pretty good too

 

[SUSHI GUY]

:wink: yep like i always say, kurosawa does good lately and there are some more others who do the international business in japan so keep checking em. usually they are much better than your home town dealers!!!

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/english/

tokai joe/sushi guy. 8)

hello mick and oze !!!!

 

[Big Willie Style]

epivox

There was nothing wrong with the LS85 you played in the store, except for the fact that the guitar had travelled halfway round the world through different weather conditions and the 'setup' needed tweaking....the wood moves and the Tokai factory setup changes.

No guitar store should display or try to sell a guitar if the guitar is not reasonably well setup.
If you play a PRS or R8 Historic and the setup is a mess, you'll think it's a badly made guitar.

Ask that store to set the guitar up to your specs and I bet you'll have a different opinion on the guitar the next time you play it.

Funny story - my buddy, who's a lefty, came into a little extra cash and was looking to buy a nice new acoustic. As a lefty, his choices are usually very limited. He was eyeing a Gibson J45 (I think) and the setup was a mess. He asked them to set it up so he could try it. They said they can't set it up unless he buys it :roll: Hmmm... spend more than $2k on a guitar without even getting to give it a trial run??? Sufficed to say he went shopping elsewhere.

Jason

 

[Diamond]

epivox

There was nothing wrong with the LS85 you played in the store, except for the fact that the guitar had travelled halfway round the world through different weather conditions and the 'setup' needed tweaking....the wood moves and the Tokai factory setup changes.

No guitar store should display or try to sell a guitar if the guitar is not reasonably well setup.
If you play a PRS or R8 Historic and the setup is a mess, you'll think it's a badly made guitar.

Ask that store to set the guitar up to your specs and I bet you'll have a different opinion on the guitar the next time you play it.

Funny story - my buddy, who's a lefty, came into a little extra cash and was looking to buy a nice new acoustic. As a lefty, his choices are usually very limited. He was eyeing a Gibson J45 (I think) and the setup was a mess. He asked them to set it up so he could try it. They said they can't set it up unless he buys it :roll: Hmmm... spend more than $2k on a guitar without even getting to give it a trial run??? Sufficed to say he went shopping elsewhere.

Jason

Sometimes I wonder how guitar stores expect to sell guitars.
First the guitar isn't setup, and then the salesman usually has no selling skills and doesn't know the specs of the guitar he's trying to sell.

 

[Axchisler]

Hi all! new here and it's been a pleasure reading about some great guitars. I just ordered an LS100Q and waiting its arrival.

I couldn't help but chime in about guitar shops and their setups. I had all the money in my pocket to buy a really nice "Gibson" Les Paul and went to the local Guitar Center.

I tried at least 8 of them and then went to the PRS's. All the LP's they had were set with the nut string height so high that they all played aweful. The salesmen told me they do this to leave room for individual taste, and that they will set it to my "specs" after purchase. Whhaat? Like above, I have to buy the guitar to see how good it can be? This really turned me off with Gibson, so I walked out with a PRS Navarro, that plays great and sounds great, which is an understatement. Don't most of us really want the same or very similiar action? As low as possible wo buzz? You can always raise it at the bridge, but if the nut isn't cut right it's all bad.

This is what eventually brought me to Tokai, and finding one online. I trust fellow guitar players more with a guitar I have never seen or played more than a local dealer as long as their feedback is really good. Customer service??? Gibson I mean, the PRS's all played great so it was a matter of tone.

Then again Guitar Center does offer a 30 day money back guarantee, I wonder if it aplies here though.

 

[Axchisler]

Bump... I know I'd like to here other comments about this if anyone cares to share...[/b]

 

[Whoosh]

Agreed.

I really dont feel there are any excuses for nuts being cut/slotted high. This being doing to be able to cope with personal preferences really doesnt do it for me Action is set at the bridge, not at the nut, simple as that.

A nut should be cut so the string barely clears (almost unnoticable) the first fret when fretting between the second and third. Only exception, maybe, being specific slide setups.