Tokai v's Gibson

[RocknBlues]

Hi guys,

Some of you or most of you might have already seen this, but for those who haven't here's a link to a thread on the "My Les Paul forum" that I only came across today and found interesting.
I know some of you like to compare specs between the two, so if you haven't seen it then enjoy :wink:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/50210-gibson-les-paul-101-a.html

 

[Jockai]

G

I'm Tokai 'til i die i'm

Bm

Tokai 'til i die i've

C Cmin

tried the rest but they're still the best .......

G F G F G F

Tokai i love you ....Tokai i love you Tokai i love you (fade)

 

[SkyNet3D]

The main difference between Tokai and Gibson, is that Tokai guitar owners aren't cork-sniffing idiots. :lol:

 

[marcusnieman]

The main difference between Tokai and Gibson, is that Tokai guitar owners aren't cork-sniffing idiots. :lol:

Oh trust me.... we sniff our share of Tokai corks :wink:

 

[Big Willie Style]

So in light of information like this, why do people keep overpaying for the name on the headstock?!?!?

On a similar note, I had my SG-155 up for sale on the used site here in Kore. All the replies to the ad said they'd rather buy a Gibson special or standard for that money. I guess ignorance is bliss.

Jason

 

[Anonymous]

So in light of information like this, why do people keep overpaying for the name on the headstock?!?!?

Status. Most guitarists aspire to own a Gibson or a Fender. I felt I had moved up the ladder in the 80s when I sold my Goldstar & bought a Fender. No more excuses like "I would sound better if I had a real Gibson/Fender".

If you play with a bunch of people who look down on Tokais, you may prefer to play a Gibson/Fender, even if it costs you more. It's called peer pressure. And few groups of people are as obsessed with gear as musicians.

However, we know better. :wink: Shhhh.....

:lol:

Mike

 

[Big Willie Style]

So in light of information like this, why do people keep overpaying for the name on the headstock?!?!?

Status. Most guitarists aspire to own a Gibson or a Fender. I felt I had moved up the ladder in the 80s when I sold my Goldstar & bought a Fender. No more excuses like "I would sound better if I had a real Gibson/Fender".

If you play with a bunch of people who look down on Tokais, you may prefer to play a Gibson/Fender, even if it costs you more. It's called peer pressure. And few groups of people are as obsessed with gear as musicians.

However, we know better. :wink: Shhhh.....

:lol:

Mike

True, funny thing is, I was telling myself the same thing if I had a nice Tokai and a nice MIJ strat (my new Bacchus). But like you said, shhhh... prices are going up a lot nowadays as it is.

Jason

 

[marcusnieman]

So in light of information like this, why do people keep overpaying for the name on the headstock?!?!?

Status. Most guitarists aspire to own a Gibson or a Fender. I felt I had moved up the ladder in the 80s when I sold my Goldstar & bought a Fender. No more excuses like "I would sound better if I had a real Gibson/Fender".

If you play with a bunch of people who look down on Tokais, you may prefer to play a Gibson/Fender, even if it costs you more. It's called peer pressure. And few groups of people are as obsessed with gear as musicians.

However, we know better. :wink: Shhhh.....

:lol:

Mike

My thought on that is before Tokai even existed, there was Gibson and Fender - Tokai and others ended up doing a better job of making F and G guitars than they did while Fender and Gibson subsituted quantity for quality.

Prices aside, the older Fender and Gibson guitars are for the most part, **** fine guitars while alot of their new (non custom shop) stuff is crap but when it does come down to price AND quality, you can't go wrong with some of the MIJ's

 

[DaveWW]

Just think how bad they'd (G & F) be if Tokai and others didn't provide competition to help knock 'em into to shape.

 

[Anonymous]

Just think how bad they'd (G & F) be if Tokai and others didn't provide competition to help knock 'em into to shape.

More to the point than that is the fact that Tokai (and a few others others) inadvertently supplied Fender & Gibson with the business model that currently works so well for them - focus on tradition & produce re-issues that exploit that tradition. Who else understood, in 1978, that this was the way forward?

 

[DaveWW]

Yes, of course...........but it was competition that did that, wasn't it?

 

[JVsearch]

So in light of information like this, why do people keep overpaying for the name on the headstock?!?!?

Why do people buy anything that is promoted by Tiger Woods? Branding works. The marketers have been perfecting it for years. It makes us pointlessly aspirational and live in envy of our future selves... Think about it, "if I just get that Les Paul I could be like Slash" or whoever works for you. If I could just get a massive 4 wheel drive I could go all over the outback, even though I hate the bush and will never drive outside the city! :lol:
We're just letting ourselves be conned mostly.

On a similar note, I had my SG-155 up for sale on the used site here in Kore. All the replies to the ad said they'd rather buy a Gibson special or standard for that money. I guess ignorance is bliss.

The brand is very strong, what can you do? Somebody needs to do a bit of marketing... :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

If Tokai did much marketing & got bigger, there's always a chance that quality would decline as Tokai struggled to keep pace with demand. I think we all like Tokai just as is it, don't you?

 

[guitarslinger]

They can't even keep up with current demand and is constantly boom and bust on the stock front.

And it's a job for life - so unless orders can be guaranteed for the next 30 yearas....???

It's a lot of risk for a steady business.

At least that's what we get told.

 

[Dave_Mc]

If Tokai did much marketing & got bigger, there's always a chance that quality would decline as Tokai struggled to keep pace with demand. I think we all like Tokai just as is it, don't you?

yeah. :lol: It used to annoy me that so few people were willing to try tokai, but then i realised (probably because you told me) that the reason they were such good value was because most people just want a fender or a gibson. Now I'm not so annoyed... :lol:

 

[JVsearch]

If Tokai did much marketing & got bigger, there's always a chance that quality would decline as Tokai struggled to keep pace with demand. I think we all like Tokai just as is it, don't you?

Yeah, I do, but I couldn't begrudge Tokai Japan any success - they do deserve it for the Japanese product (can't speak for the other lines).

Also, this is only from reading translations of Yahoo auctions, but there seems to be plenty of people in Japan who like Tokai and see it as something to be proud of, so I think their marketing in the domestic market is probably working pretty well?

 

[JVsearch]

They can't even keep up with current demand and is constantly boom and bust on the stock front.

And it's a job for life - so unless orders can be guaranteed for the next 30 yearas....???

It's a lot of risk for a steady business.

At least that's what we get told.

Interesting, and the job for life thing is one of the reasons the factory is so good, but also something that may not survive in the future.

 

[Big Willie Style]

If Tokai did much marketing & got bigger, there's always a chance that quality would decline as Tokai struggled to keep pace with demand. I think we all like Tokai just as is it, don't you?

True. I just took my 3rd trip to Tokyo in the last 2 years and it was the first trip where I saw a number of nice Tokais. Before, all I saw were MIC and damaged guitars.

Jason

 

[luis]

Tokai was a CNC pionner and one of the first company looking to craft accurate instruments(they begun in 1978 officially with Reborn(something like Reissue but meaning they wanted to bring back those guitar all people loves but nobody was building at that time).
I was shocked when Scott Lentz no less told publicly Reborns were real Les Pauls,with more attention to detail than what Gibson was making then...And he knows about guitar,isn?t he?

I must confess I?m partial to Tokai but I?m not able to spend many money at this time unfortunatly....If I was able I would love to test new models but as far as I don?t ever got for free I can?t at this time...

 

[MIJvintage]

........ just my 2 cents ............

I believe that Tokai accomplished more & put out a better product with the resources they had as compared to Gibson, which ran a much larger operation with more employees, yet producing an inferior product IMO.

Sure, huge companies such as Gibson & Fender produced massive amounts of guitars but how many of them on a percentage basis were actually quality guitars?

In my book the true test of any musical instrument is it's inherit quality, and no amount of mass produced crap will change that fact.

If not for Tokai & other Japanese makers of the era, Gibson & Fender likely would have never taken note of the smaller guys & their quality, may have never realized their own mistakes & short comings, and may have never attempted to correct some of their past mistakes.
It could very well be that Tokai and other Japanese makers of that era were indirectly responsible for the longevity & continuation of the big guys like Gibson & Fender.

IMO, anyone associated with Tokai, from the top levels of management on down to the line workers have a lot to be proud of, not only for producing a seriously quality product but also for helping to build fires under the asses of the sleeping giants.

AFA guitars, I'm sticking with Tokai & some other MIJ brands .....................