the Norlin Years...

[TSL]

I hear alot of people (not really here) complain about how bad the Norlin years were at Gibson. I have a "Kalamazoo Model", really just a cherry sunburst Les Paul Standard. While it does not have a long tenon (three piece neck though), it is a wonderful guitar.

Any idea what the legit complaints were about Norlin? They seemed to make better product that Gib offers today...

 

[20 century boy]

there was no quality controle at all. A friend of mine had a SG from those years and it was really the worst SG I've ever played. It doesn't mean that all the guitars were bad. Just that they let everything go out of the factory without controle. You're lucky to have a nice LP but it doesn't mean those years are underrated. Well, honestly, I think these last years , Gibson is going down again. All these "faded" stuff and everything... it's just a way to sell their crappy stuff.

 

[EunosFD]

As 20 century boy said the qc was quite poor and I believe the Baldwin company owned Gibson at the time so they took a LOT of cost cutting measures to maximize profit. During this time you'd see LP's with maple necks, maple fingerboards (kinda cool looking in some cases), the infamous "pancake" bodies, multi-piece tops (many times 3+ pieces), cheaper hardware, the list goes on. I've played a few from the era that were actually quite nice and could hold their own, but as a general rule they're few and far between. Then you'd get the oddball models like the Sonex with it's plastic body or the RD Artist with the optional Moog electronics (which are actually quite cool) and all-maple construction (talk about heavy). There were some pretty cool models that came from that era though like the 25/50 Anniversary LP Customs and the LP Artist, Explorer 2, V2, Firebird 2 (FMT), and LP Deluxe (although they may pre-date the Norlin era). I'm not much of a Gibson historian by any means, but being a chronic GAS victim I've noodled around on more than my fair share of 'em from all eras so I have a somewhat reasonable idea of what was going on with 'em. You could also check over on the Les Paul Forum for more in-depth info about the topic.

 

[TSL]

Thanks guys. I guess I forgot about all those nasty models Gib dumped on us in those days! When I think back on it, perhaps the budget cutting did make for more junk than they even put on us today. Still I find the modern QC quite concerning.

I have been to the Gibson forum. Mostly seems like people happy with thier $4k-$5k guitars. If your spending that much, it shouldn't be a surprise if you have a nice instrument. I'm not cheap, and indeed have about $16k in instruments, but I think the Historic prices are out of line.

Looking forward to owning some Tokais, old and new...

 

[orvilleowner]

Well, honestly, I think these last years, Gibson is going down again. All these "faded" stuff and everything ... it's just a way to sell their crappy stuff.

All that "faded" stuff is a way to have some guitars in the "Under $1000" price range. They realize that they just can't sell guitars for $2000 and up. They have to participate in the whole market if they are to survive. That's why they have Music-Yo and their new line of Department Store guitars, to sell entry level instruments.

So how can they sell a guitar for less? They skimp on the finishing which saves time and effort (US clean air guidelines are major hinderances -- remember when Fender was sending their guitars down to Mexico to be finished? What kind of clean air laws are there in Mexico?).

 

[TSL]

I don't really have a problem with the faded stuff. Mostly they are classic designs. However, the TINY-EST change and a glossy finish will double the price, and that is unreasonable.

I went to buy a V almost 3 years ago. Bid on a couple MIJ on ebay, and got sniped out by a few dollars at the end (now they go for three times that amount)! as hesitant to spend too much on one as I didn't know as much about them as I do now.

Took SEVERAL months of playing every Gib V in my sizeable metro area to find one I would buy, and then I still had to throw away the PUs, and put in something that sounded good (Burstbuckers).

 

[orvilleowner]

I don't really have a problem with the faded stuff. Mostly they are classic designs.

Neither of the big 2 (Gibson & Fender) have had much luck selling anything other than the Classic Designs. How many RDs or Blues Hawks do you see guys playing?

However, the TINY-EST change and a glossy finish will double the price, and that is unreasonable.

Gibson has certainly gotten a lot of people (not me) to spend unreasonable sums by calling things "Historic" and "Vintage Reissues." And it's funny how it seems that every year they manage to make them even CLOSER to the vintage specs. I hope they let us know when they finally get there.

BTW, I own just one Gibson. A nice relic-y 1974 gold top Deluxe that's been converted to the large humbuckers. A recent fret levelling and recrowning has done wonders for it. I wouldn't trade it for a new one.