Old vs new Tokai Jazz Sound

[svemt]

I have a Sunburst Tokai Jazz Sound with serial no 215152 and by reading multiple forum posts and looking at old Tokai catalogs I've concluded that it was made in 1987, which is in accordance with when I bought it back in 87 or 88. I took off the frets many years ago and now I'm interested in buying a similar but fretted bass.
From the Tokai company web site, 東海楽器製造株式会社, it seems like they are still made but called AJB108, AJB110, and AJB114. At the same time I see the Finish Tokai agent selling a TJB-55, Tokai TJB-55 Vintage White Electric Bass.

My questions:
- What's the logic behind the AJB vs TJB naming?
- What are the differences (mainly regarding quality) between the above AJB models, the TJB-55, and my old TJB45?
(The only differences I've found so far is that my TJB45 has a bridge where the string lays on a "cut-off bolt" and that my neck is varnished while the TJB-55 has a satin feel)

Thanks!
Sven

 

[Sigmania]

Welcome Sven. And you are correct about the age on your bass. If you look at your pots they will probably have a date code. That with the stamped code on the body and neck should give you year and month of production.

As for AJB/TJB, those model designations in essence refer to the market they were made for. "A" is for the American market and should have the altered headstock. "T" I believe stands for traditional and should have the normal Fender headstock.

There were also some weird original design hybrid models. TPB55S

 

[Sigmania]

And in the early to mid 80s, the models above the 45 had reverse wound tuners (60 and up?), a different bridge, and the finish switches to lacquer on higher models (80 and up?) also.

 

[svemt]

And in the early to mid 80s, the models above the 45 had reverse wound tuners (60 and up?), a different bridge, and the finish switches to lacquer on higher models (80 and up?) also.

Thanks Sigmania!
Anyone with experience of the new TJB-55 mentioned above?

 

[Sigmania]

Is there a particular year you are considering?

 

[svemt]

Is there a particular year you are considering?

Brand new TJB-55, like the Finish Tokai agent is selling.

 

[Sigmania]

Hmmmm. A 55 level Tokai these days would be a Chinese build I would guess.

Wood would be different as well as hardware and pickups.

55 is an entry level price point.

 

[svemt]

Thanks!
The TJB-55 is made in Japan according to the Finish Tokai agent.

Anyway, in the Tokai catalogs for 1986/87 I've only seen the TJB45 model, so I thought my 1987? Tokai must be a TJB45, but since it has 4-screw reverse tuners I've started to wonder. You mentioned there are different bridges and finishes (lacquer). I'm attaching a couple of images of my bass and maybe you can help me identify the model? One of the tuners is replaced with a HipShot D-Tuner as you'll see.

 

[Sigmania]

That serial number is from 1987 I believe.

I would take things apart one day to make sure everything there goes together.

I’m not sure about in 1987, I will need to look and it’s early in the morning here, but a few years earlier the 4 screw tuners were on the 60 and up bass guitars. And 70 or 80 and up had lacquer finish.

Have you ever taken the pickguard and or neck off and taken pictures? Maybe a tuner to see if there are other holes?

 

[Sigmania]

And just because the Finish agent says it’s MIJ I would not accept that as true. I would ask for a picture showing the serial number. That price range is Chinese these days. MIJ Tokai basses are about twice that now I believe.

 

[Sigmania]

And you are right. Catalogs from 1985/86/87/89 only show the TJB45.



There were always non catalog basses, but it argues for it being a 45.

I would take one of the tuners off and see if there are other holes under there.

I would also take the pickguard off and take pictures of everything (pickups, cavities, wiring and pots, etc.).

 

[Sigmania]

Looking through the thread I started on 2xxxxx serial numbers.

It is looking like they may have switched to 4 screw tuners in the late 80s.

Here is a 1988/89 Custom Edition labeled bass with 4 screws.

Six Digit Serial Numbers With 2xxxxx 1986 1987 1988

 

[Sigmania]

Here is an '86 Hard Puncher S (2 pickup model) that still has the 3 screw tuners.

Six Digit Serial Numbers With 2xxxxx 1986 1987 1988







Wondering if they switched in 1987 ?

Guessing here in part. Just not a lot of information on this period and I have had to scrap pieces together since there has never been good information for the late 80s and the product line shrank dramatically.

 

[Sigmania]

1987 fretless Custom Edition with 3 screw tuners.

SN 219097

Fretless PB50 ?

Six Digit Serial Numbers With 2xxxxx 1986 1987 1988

 

[Sigmania]

Ohhhh.

This one still has the 45 sticker and the 4 screw tuners...

SN 216866

Tokai Custom Edition 80s Japan | Reverb

 

[Sigmania]

So it looks like the specs changed on the tuners at least. Probably in 1987 around the time your bass was made.

Most likely a 1987 TJB45YSR.

 

[Sigmania]

The Indonesian distributor is saying the TJB55's are made in Japan, so that is a surprise to me.

Tokai TJB-55 YS/R Jazz Sound Japan in Yellow Sunburst

I would still want to see a serial number to confirm it.

 

[Sigmania]

You have probably already seen this:

Jazz Sound – Kitarablogi.com – Finland's premier Guitar and Bass blog

 

[Sigmania]

And I don't know how they can sell that bass at essentially the same price they did 40 years ago?

There has to be a compromise in materials (electronics, wood, hardware).

 

[svemt]

Thanks for all the info and links (I've seen much of it before ).
I've taken some more pictures.
The 4-screw tuners have not been replaced (which I was almost sure of since I bought the bass when it was new late 1987 or early 1988).
I can't see anything of interest under the pick guard.
The pots doesn't say anything to me, but they may have been replaced when I installed active Bartolini pickups years ago.

I asked the Finish agent regarding the model number and they answered:
"Tokai change ”modelnumbers” every year ’cause model number tells the price in Japanese Yen. We wanted to keep original modelnumbers from the 80s." and "It’s comparable with AJB-108/110."

Regarding the price of the new TJB-55, it is about five times higher than what I paid for the TJB45 in 1987, so the number TJB-55 is not related to the price in yen, as the Finish agent said above.

On one of their images you can get a glimpse of a serial number just above "Made in Japan".

By the way, the Finish agent also sell a "non Japanese" Tokai Jazz Sound AJB-58 for about half the price of the TJB-55.