Identify a Fernandes Super grade

[Sacha667]

Hi everyone.

I have owned this super grade Fernandes for many years now and only now have I decided to look for information on it.
Can anyone identify the year and model?
Over the years I've modified it a lot and the electronics are completely different from the original (I know I'm a heretic).
As you can see the logo is not "burny" but "fernandes".
There is no serial number on the guitar or pickups.
I was thinking of selling the pickups (I don't think I'll ever sell the guitar), do you think they have any value? are the famous VH1?

thanks for the help

 

[Sigmania]

I don't know anything about these, but just noting that it is interesting that it says "Fernandes" and not "Burny"on a Gibson clone.

Do you have pictures of the original pots and the pickup routs?

 

[Sigmania]

Pickups remind me of GOTOH MKII zebras you see in 1981 LS60 Tokais. Square window, gray wire.

1981 Tokai LS-60 Love Rock Model Collector and Museum Grade LS-200 Top = Birdseye Flame Figure | Reverb




VH-1 discussion here:

VH-1 Pickups

 

[Lumi71]

Seems to be a MIJ for sure- I think end of 80s made.
Check the pots codes for the date
As far as I know they batched their LP clones for Europe with Fernandes instead of Burny.
Apart from the Logo it should be the same as a Burny Super grade- seems to be an RLG 60 or 70

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Hm... single ring, normal script... an oddity. Very bright gray PU wire on the pics. Pics of the PU and control cavities may tell more.

Maybe you're lucky and also find manufacturing codes on the pots (rare in Burnys, they should be 3-digit stamps on the back of the pots, if they're Noble pots stamped on the sides don't bother, they don't have date codes).

 

[Sacha667]

Hm... single ring, normal script... an oddity. Very bright gray PU wire on the pics. Pics of the PU and control cavities may tell more.

Maybe you're lucky and also find manufacturing codes on the pots (rare in Burnys, they should be 3-digit stamps on the back of the pots, if they're Noble pots stamped on the sides don't bother, they don't have date codes).

In the P.U. cavity there doesn't seem to be anything interesting, in the one at the bridge two illegible letters.
In the control cavities there is an inscription, it looks like "870 223 D".
The pots are "noble", no stamps on the back, on the side it says "Noble 15a 500k 0".

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

In the P.U. cavity there doesn't seem to be anything interesting

Oh yes there is. Generally it's the construction details that matter on Burnys (since there's rarely anything written in them), and sharp, high-res pictures of the PU routings can document the routing style (possibly pointing to the factory) and tell you whether it's a veneer or solid top etc.

Also the total shape of the control cavity is always important. The numbers penciled into the cavity are very unusual and certainly interesting but also completely enigmatic.

Anyway, there are a couple of details that suggest "before 1987":
1. "Normal" script position according to Homepage japanguitars
2. Offset short tenon (factory is IMO subject to debate), not typical for late 80s Dyna-made (centered short tenon) or even later Fujigen (centered long).
3. Green caps generally attributed to pre-87
4. Wide frame bell TRC (at least it looks like one on the pic, those are usually found on RLCs). Due to that Burny-typical detail, I tend to think it isn't just a replaced "winged" TRC.

- Identifying the model would be even more speculative because this is obviously not a catalog model. Unfortunately the pickups don't help either, as they are notoriously undocumented and hard to identify in most cases, particular on this one not being a catalog model (where the PU type would be listed). Apart from the flame top, nothing is really giving it away either.

- That number and the Fernandes logo could (read that word very stretched out) indicate some custom order for some shop or distributor, and the price (and hence model number) will remain unknown.

- Speculations about the number are moot, it could indicate a sort of serial number suggesting that it was part of a custom order batch made in 1987, ordered with the pre-1987 specs, or the shoe size of Godzilla... you can rarely figure out anything really specific even with many catalog Burnys and this is one of the few Fernandes labeled outliers.

 

[Shredder69]

I'd go with 1984 RLG-60. Export model (thus Fernandes logo). Not VH-1 pickups, VH-3.

 

[Voidoid56]

Ah yes, Burny. Market-leaders in Japanese inscrutabity in guitar form, to the extent that some of them aren't even Burnys...

The Fernandes badging is unusual but not super-rare. I'm not sure that anyone has cracked the exact "why" of it. It seems to be more common in some export markets (like Australia, I believe?), but they do turn up for sale in Japan as well. I would imagine that an importer that's done well with Fernandes-branded Fender copies might like the idea of having the same brand on Gibson copies, but that's just speculation. Afaik, the guitars are identical regardless of the brand.

As for the date and model: if the TRC is original (which I think it is), it puts it at pre-1989 (when the "winged" TRC was introduced.
As previously stated, a clear view of the control rout with the cover off would help, the shape is unique to each manufacturer which helps with the dating.

However, there is one small detail that could indicate an early ('87-'88) Dyna Gakki build. The pointer washers under the control knobs have their tips bent up at a 90 degree angle. The previous manufacturer (assumed to be Kasuga, I think) used slightly longer washers with the tips bent to 45 degrees. Easily replaced parts, sure, but if the control rout shape is Dyna's "X-blob" it's pretty conclusive.

If so, I'd say we're looking at a 1987-88 RLG-60CS with VH-3 pickups. The -50 was a plaintop, while the -90 had 1st gen VH-1s with braided-screen leads.

 

[Shredder69]

Ah yes, Burny. Market-leaders in Japanese inscrutabity in guitar form, to the extent that some of them aren't even Burnys...

The Fernandes badging is unusual but not super-rare. I'm not sure that anyone has cracked the exact "why" of it. It seems to be more common in some export markets (like Australia, I believe?), but they do turn up for sale in Japan as well. I would imagine that an importer that's done well with Fernandes-branded Fender copies might like the idea of having the same brand on Gibson copies, but that's just speculation. Afaik, the guitars are identical regardless of the brand.

As for the date and model: if the TRC is original (which I think it is), it puts it at pre-1989 (when the "winged" TRC was introduced.
As previously stated, a clear view of the control rout with the cover off would help, the shape is unique to each manufacturer which helps with the dating.

However, there is one small detail that could indicate an early ('87-'88) Dyna Gakki build. The pointer washers under the control knobs have their tips bent up at a 90 degree angle. The previous manufacturer (assumed to be Kasuga, I think) used slightly longer washers with the tips bent to 45 degrees. Easily replaced parts, sure, but if the control rout shape is Dyna's "X-blob" it's pretty conclusive.

If so, I'd say we're looking at a 1987-88 RLG-60CS with VH-3 pickups. The -50 was a plaintop, while the -90 had 1st gen VH-1s with braided-screen leads.

Some musings...

1. The route shape is not as circular as the Dyna, so I'd still put a penny on Kasuga, which widens up earlier.
2. It has the Deluxe tuners, which went away late 85ish.
3. WIth Noble tuners, as found in some late Kasugas, the pointer degree/shaft length may then not apply to those.