Has anyone heard or seen one of these? ULS238 SP AMB

[Mitch Malloy]

http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=124&category_id=14&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

 

[Mitch Malloy]

Thinking about geting one. With a legal head stock so they can send it to me in the states. They want to build me one but I'm scared of the Spruce. I mean I LOVE spruce on my acoustics but in the center of an electric??? Why? I'm waiting for their reply.

 

[brokentoes]

Never seen one quite like it before from Tokai, spoon cut lower horn, trapazoid fret markers with a custom headstock design, looks like they are switching things up a bit. Tokai has had cross cut guitars for awhile (SEB) but i don't remember them using spruce either, very interesting, i wonder how much it weighs ??

 

[Mitch Malloy]

They say it's light and much brighter and more resonant. They are VERY confident of it. I think I might get one but they are trying to figure out what the design should be to make it legal inport into the states and geting back to me. They say just changing the head stock doesn't do it. They need to change more. Friken Gibson..

 

[brokentoes]

Well can't they mark it as a "used" guitar ??? or does gibson have more influence with the custom people in the states than it does in Canada ????

 

[Mitch Malloy]

Definitely and these companies won't do anything illegal it's too risky for them. They have to play by the rules and Gibson has some large rules. The bacchus Duke that was sent to me by Bacchus is apparently a LOT different than a Les paul according to my tech. Measurements are way different. And I guess they have to be to be able to send it into to the states. Although I wonder exactly what went on at customs because it was nothing short of a miracle that I actually received it and if I hadn't be EXTREMELY pro active calling the post office I wouldn't have. It didn't have an address on it when it arrived in Nashville.

 

[felixcatus]

Although I wonder exactly what went on at customs because it was nothing short of a miracle that I actually received it and if I hadn't be EXTREMELY pro active calling the post office I wouldn't have. It didn't have an address on it when it arrived in Nashville.

Good to hear everything turned out OK.
What would have happened if you weren?t pro active :wink: , return to sender?

 

[sneakyjapan]

Might be risky for something they send to the States, but in Japan there are a lot of people using both US big two designs and I assume if the American companies could have done something about that in Japan, they would have by now, they`d have to stop most guitar production here and somehow I don`t think that would be possible, they march to their own drummer here. I know less than nothing about international law and trademarks..shipping something outside the country, particularly the US is a different kettle of fish, but inside Japan I see what appear to be pretty precise clones of American designs and they ain`t hiding them either, not like theres a back room where you need a secret handshake to enter. You should just come to Japan for cherry blossom season with your wife and take a bunch back with you and I bet your head would swim with all the outstanding choices we have over here...and your wife would enjoy Japan too...I mean, not that I know anything about her but it is a fantastic time to visit the country and I don`t know, maybe you can get it written off as a business trip, but by no means is the stuff people outside Japan see on line the only stuff available here.

 

[Mitch Malloy]

Sounds fun but I doubt it will happen. They have import laws here. The exact designs cannot be imported. And if I hadnt "found" my guitar it would have gone to some holding place and likely sat there forever.. There was no return address on it there was no nothing on it the only reason they let me take it is because I described it. And they didn't know what to do with it so it seemed. I took pictures of the box and posted them here when I got it. It was beyond damaged. Wide open. Thank God they put the guitar in a hard shell case with plastic around it.

 

[Mitch Malloy]

It never occurred to me till recently that maybe customs didn't want it found and they did the damage but that seems far fetched it was most likely just some idiot in NYC at the airport left it outside in a rain storm and then the address got scraped off along with half the cardboard. ?? I don't know to me when I saw it it looked like "how can that even happen"? Unless someone did it on purpose but why would they go to the trouble of doing that and then send it to Nashville? Why not just throw it in the garbage, way easier.

 

[sneakyjapan]

I have sent several guitars to Canada from Japan as gifts to my nephew and his dad, wrote them up that way and my sister never had to pay duty...if you bought them here and sent them to yourself or a friend written up as gifts, I don`t see a problem unless you have different laws on that stuff in the States. I did sell a Van Zandt strat which was an exact F/USA clone and the buyer in San Francisco didn`t pay anything extra. When I go home for holidays, I dismantle guitars and send them over in my hard shell suitcase, obviously not possible with set necks but shipped in a guitar box obtained from a store it is doable.

 

[marcusnieman]

Of the 10 guitars or so that I've brought over from Japan, I've only been tagged twice for duties at the post office upon arrival here in Dallas from San Francisco.

 

[JVsearch]

Even in the US, Gibson only owns the open book headstock, (and its logos obviously) but the body shape is not protected. This was decided in 1994 when they sued PRS over the single cut and lost. The main factor was that they had done nothing to protect the shape for 40 years. Same deal with the Strat and Tele bodies.

In Japan they have no rights to nothing, because they never registered the trademarks there. Neither were those trademarks registered here in Australia (at last check) but that doesn't stop the Fender and Gibson distributors bringing pressure to bear on retailers who try to sell Japanese imports in Australia. Presumably they are able to do the same in the US, but with a bit more oomph...

 

[Mitch Malloy]

They told me that the head stock change is not enough. I only know what they tell me. Unless the guy I'm talking to at Tokai is wrong. But it really doesn't matter. They are going to do what they are going to do.

 

[JVsearch]

They told me that the head stock change is not enough. I only know what they tell me. Unless the guy I'm talking to at Tokai is wrong. But it really doesn't matter. They are going to do what they are going to do.

They are playing safe, (and rightly so IMO) because it is far better to avoid a confrontation with the big two than it is to take them on, even if you're in the right.

Personally, I believe there's a possibility that Fender could secure the rights to the scratch plate design on the Strat. I have no inside knowledge about this, it's just my personal feeling. That scratch plate is very distinctive and it does not affect the function or operation of a clone scratch plate if you change it a bit, only the look, so it's reasonable that a cloner should be expected to change it.

This may well be how Tokai is thinking about any of their guitars - it doesn't hurt the guitar to make some changes so why not be safe. I agree with them simply on the basis that I would rather see Japanese guitars go their own path with the different headstocks and things, than continue to clone. Lets face it, LPs, Strats, Teles or ESs are the popular models, so the Japanese guitars should be a bit different, their version, not just a clone. They've got the quality craftsmanship, now I think they could differentiate their models away from the originals, be a genuine option, rather than something where people say "couldn't afford the real thing eh".

 

[sneakyjapan]

" They are playing safe, (and rightly so IMO) because it is far better to avoid a confrontation with the big two than it is to take them on, even if you're in the right.

Personally, I believe there's a possibility that Fender could secure the rights to the scratch plate design on the Strat. I have no inside knowledge about this, it's just my personal feeling. That scratch plate is very distinctive and it does not affect the function or operation of a clone scratch plate if you change it a bit, only the look, so it's reasonable that a cloner should be expected to change it.

This may well be how Tokai is thinking about any of their guitars - it doesn't hurt the guitar to make some changes so why not be safe. I agree with them simply on the basis that I would rather see Japanese guitars go their own path with the different headstocks and things, than continue to clone. Lets face it, LPs, Strats, Teles or ESs are the popular models, so the Japanese guitars should be a bit different, their version, not just a clone. They've got the quality craftsmanship, now I think they could differentiate their models away from the originals, be a genuine option, rather than something where people say "couldn't afford the real thing eh".








they are infatuated with all things American.

 

[singemonkey]

Clones will always be an important market for Japanese companies. Guitar players are conservative. It's impossible to truly improve on electric guitars - in that, unlike say cameras, there's no objective measure by which you can say, "this new kind of guitar is better than a Les Paul."

So Japanese ingenuity and craftsmanship can only count so much with conservative guitar players who make up a huge segment of the market. Even the American market has failed in making many models remotely as popular as the 1950s and 1960s designs. Since then there've only been a handful that all experienced players will recognise. And Japan has contributed a few of them: Yamaha SG, Ibanez Artist, Ibanez JEM.

Yamaha Pacificas - a different take on Strats and Teles - failed to really penetrate the serious player market despite the unquestionable quality of the top end models.

So Japanese clone companies are going to continue to rely on clones as a consistent source of revenue for a long while, I reckon.

 

[sneakyjapan]

Plus, if anybody here wants something off the wall there`s always ESP.

 

[JVsearch]

Clones will always be an important market for Japanese companies. Guitar players are conservative. It's impossible to truly improve on electric guitars - in that, unlike say cameras, there's no objective measure by which you can say, "this new kind of guitar is better than a Les Paul."

So Japanese ingenuity and craftsmanship can only count so much with conservative guitar players who make up a huge segment of the market. Even the American market has failed in making many models remotely as popular as the 1950s and 1960s designs...

Good points, and I think you're entirely correct, but it's kind of weird - where does this conservative mindset come from? "If it 'aint broke don't fix it"?