Custom ST colours?

[Peter Mac]

Hi Guys,

In Australia, "Custom" has a slightly varied meaning but for these purposes it equates to something slightly different from regular production.
With Tokai, it kinda varied also.
Tracing Springy colours back to 1978 there are 5 Standard colours that remained unchanged - GS, YS, BB, OW and MR.
Around 1980 - 81 we saw more colours creep in - FO, GM, SO, MB, MG, etc. but at no extra charge.
As far as I can tell, in 1982 the USA market got DuPont colours CAR and LPB. These were later added to the "Worldwide" lineup in the 1990s [I do not have the info in front of me so the decade may not be entirely accurate]. The rest of the World continued with MR and MB.
At the end of 1982, any colours not from the Standard 5 attracted an extra 5000yen cost.
Natural was always 5000yen more as the wood needed to be cosmetically appealing - not a problem for a solid colour.
In terms of ordering, only Importers could Order these colours from the Factory and we had to get lots of 5.
I remember sitting with the Sales team looking at which 'custom' colours would be popular in Australia. Having said that Tokai still sent us a bunch of ST-70 FO that we didn't Order along with the SO, GM and MB that we did.
Hope this helps clear up a few things.

regards
Peter Mac

 

[siamackz]

Hi Guys,

In Australia, "Custom" has a slightly varied meaning but for these purposes it equates to something slightly different from regular production.
With Tokai, it kinda varied also.
Tracing Springy colours back to 1978 there are 5 Standard colours that remained unchanged - GS, YS, BB, OW and MR.
Around 1980 - 81 we saw more colours creep in - FO, GM, SO, MB, MG, etc. but at no extra charge.
As far as I can tell, in 1982 the USA market got DuPont colours CAR and LPB. These were later added to the "Worldwide" lineup in the 1990s [I do not have the info in front of me so the decade may not be entirely accurate]. The rest of the World continued with MR and MB.
At the end of 1982, any colours not from the Standard 5 attracted an extra 5000yen cost.
Natural was always 5000yen more as the wood needed to be cosmetically appealing - not a problem for a solid colour.
In terms of ordering, only Importers could Order these colours from the Factory and we had to get lots of 5.
I remember sitting with the Sales team looking at which 'custom' colours would be popular in Australia. Having said that Tokai still sent us a bunch of ST-70 FO that we didn't Order along with the SO, GM and MB that we did.
Hope this helps clear up a few things.

regards
Peter Mac

Insightful as always! Thank you so much!

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks Peter. That’s helpful and also crazy how the ST70s went out there. Wish I could have gobbled those up. 8)

 

[Sigmania]

In terms of ordering, only Importers could Order these colours from the Factory and we had to get lots of 5.
I remember sitting with the Sales team looking at which 'custom' colours would be popular in Australia. Having said that Tokai still sent us a bunch of ST-70 FO that we didn't Order along with the SO, GM and MB that we did.

And fascinating how these orders were put together.

Thanks again!

 

[Sigmania]

In terms of ordering, only Importers could Order these colours from the Factory and we had to get lots of 5.
I remember sitting with the Sales team looking at which 'custom' colours would be popular in Australia. Having said that Tokai still sent us a bunch of ST-70 FO that we didn't Order along with the SO, GM and MB that we did.

Fascinating to hear how these orders were put together.

And curious process with the ST70s. Guess they were trying to get the new model out there? Wish I could have snatched those up! 8)

Thanks again!

 

[Sigmania]

Also Peter Mac,

Were the colors available in all the models? The OP got a 1980 FO Springy with an allen truss rod adjustment, no skunk stripe with a veneer rosewood board. Have you seen an ST80/85 in FO?

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=197650#p197650

Seems like most of the color options showed up as ST55s and ST65s? Perhaps the paint covering multi piece bodies?

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi Guys,

That particular colour FO was Tokais take on Fiesta Red which has an orange/pink base as opposed to Dakota Red which has a blue base [ as per the PMS colour chart] Tokai did not do a Dakota Red finish.
Mostly they were put onto regular ST-50 and ST-70, remembering that the ST-70 was a 1965 replica - small headstock, laminated board of both maple and rosewood, no skunk stripe, poly finish and ST-60 electrics.
To date I have not seen an ST-80 in FO - if anything their colour choice was limited by the fact they were finished in Nitro.

Also keep in mind that Fender and Gibson in the 60's used car paint supplied from (mainly) DuPont who supplied Ford and GM.
eg: Burgandy Mist=1959 Oldsmobile ; Daphne Blue=1958 Cadillac ; Surf Green= 1957 Chevy BelAir ; LPB & Dakota Red=1958 Cadillac....
These colours were registered/copyrighted so no-one else could use the colour name unless they bought them from DuPont and certainly couldn't replicate them using a PMS chart. For those that may not know, a PMS Chart tells a colour mixer how much of each different base colour is required to complete a particular shade. It is used in Printing, Paint Shops, etc kinda like "Milton the Monster - "3 drops of Essence of Terror, 5 drops of Sinister Sauce, 1 drop of tenderness . . "

regards
Peter Mac

 

[siamackz]

Hi Guys,

That particular colour FO was Tokais take on Fiesta Red which has an orange/pink base as opposed to Dakota Red which has a blue base [ as per the PMS colour chart] Tokai did not do a Dakota Red finish.
Mostly they were put onto regular ST-50 and ST-70, remembering that the ST-70 was a 1965 replica - small headstock, laminated board of both maple and rosewood, no skunk stripe, poly finish and ST-60 electrics.
To date I have not seen an ST-80 in FO - if anything their colour choice was limited by the fact they were finished in Nitro.

Also keep in mind that Fender and Gibson in the 60's used car paint supplied from (mainly) DuPont who supplied Ford and GM.
eg: Burgandy Mist=1959 Oldsmobile ; Daphne Blue=1958 Cadillac ; Surf Green= 1957 Chevy BelAir ; LPB & Dakota Red=1958 Cadillac....
These colours were registered/copyrighted so no-one else could use the colour name unless they bought them from DuPont and certainly couldn't replicate them using a PMS chart. For those that may not know, a PMS Chart tells a colour mixer how much of each different base colour is required to complete a particular shade. It is used in Printing, Paint Shops, etc kinda like "Milton the Monster - "3 drops of Essence of Terror, 5 drops of Sinister Sauce, 1 drop of tenderness . . "

regards
Peter Mac

So interesting, but also confusing What would differentiate a rosewood laminate FO colour late 1980/81 St 60 from the St 70? The st 60 features in the 1981 catalogue but the st 70 isn’t listed. Is it that the 70 is a rosewood slab vs laminate? And the serial numbers start with 1xx ?

 

[ampmaker]

The red headstock Springy is my photo (my photo of my own guitar). I can't remember what the paint code in the body cavity was. I always assumed it was a copy of Dakota Red.

FWIW, I ordered the guitar at a local dealer (Southend, Essex) after reading a Sounds review and had no choice over the colour. I don't think I paid extra for it, either - just the regular price for a Tokai Springy Sound. Don't remember how many months I waited, but it was an '83. I lucked out that the last one left in the batch by the time I got there was so gorgeous. If I'd been asked at the time of ordering, I would most likely have ordered a sunburst to match my previous Washburn.

No Tokai-style model numbers were mentioned at the time of buying, either. Much later, there was some discussion of painted headstock meaning it was an ST-55, but the sticker on the back of the neck was definitely '50'. At the time I got it, I was confuddled, believing this was meant to be the era of the copy (1950s).

 

[Sigmania]

Wow! How wild is that?

That was an interesting period at Tokai from what I understand re: issues with Fender, etc. You have a piece of history there and a good story!

Looks like you posted a pic of it in a group shot in the block logo thread? Very cool.

Here is my Gang of Three, three shades of red:

It's now a Gang of Two (Springy on the right has since been sold).

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26253

 

[Sigmania]

To date I have not seen an ST-80 in FO - if anything their colour choice was limited by the fact they were finished in Nitro.

Will be interesting to see what the acetone test tells us.

 

[Sigmania]

The red headstock Springy is my photo (my photo of my own guitar). I can't remember what the paint code in the body cavity was. I always assumed it was a copy of Dakota Red.

I wonder if it was the OR? That is the old red that the Joe Walsh model was finished in I believe?

 

[Sigmania]

What would differentiate a rosewood laminate FO colour late 1980/81 St 60 from the St 70? The st 60 features in the 1981 catalogue but the st 70 isn’t listed. Is it that the 70 is a rosewood slab vs laminate?

The ST70 was a special model that had different than average fretboard construction.

The ST70 had a maple laminate over a maple neck. No skunk stripe. Called the rare model. Based on an extremely rare 1964 Fender Strat.

The ST70R was a slab rosewood construction based on a 1960 model.

Earliest ones came out in 1981 and has the old numbering system.

There’s a thread dedicated to it on here.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25998&hilit=ST70

 

[siamackz]

What would differentiate a rosewood laminate FO colour late 1980/81 St 60 from the St 70? The st 60 features in the 1981 catalogue but the st 70 isn’t listed. Is it that the 70 is a rosewood slab vs laminate?

The ST70 was a special model that had different than average fretboard construction.

The ST70 had a maple laminate over a maple neck. No skunk stripe. Called the rare model. Based on an extremely rare 1964 Fender Strat.

The ST70R was a slab rosewood construction based on a 1960 model.

Earliest ones came out in 1981 and has the old numbering system.

There’s a thread dedicated to it on here.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25998&hilit=ST70

Very insightful link, thanks

 

[Sigmania]

I noticed that the 1982 Spring catalog refers to these not as "custom" colors, but "special" colors FWIW.

From the Spring 1982 catalog.

INFORMATION

The long-awaited appearance of 5 special colors that can be said to be the symbol of the old-fashioned model. We have started accepting special colors for ST, TE, PB, and JB series. Mania-like colors-Sonic Blue (SO), Candy Apple Red (CR), Gold Metallic (GM), Lake Placid Blue (LB), which can be said to be a symbol of the oldies model rarely produced in the 1960s. A brilliant appearance of Metallic Green (MG). The list price is increased by 5,000 yen for all models. In addition, the reception of the same color finish of the body of the head stock part will start at the same time, and as with the special color series, all models will have a uniform price increase of 5,000 yen. In the case of head coating in the special color series, a total of 10,000 yen will be added. Delivery takes about 3 months after receiving an order. Please apply at Tokai product dealers nationwide. Assemble the parts of the Tokai Electric Guitar series to the specifications of the custom-made system.

● Minor change: A minor change model with pickups, parts, etc. For guitarists who insist on their desired personality, the Tokai Electric Guitar Project Team produces custom-made guitars only for the following items. Please note that the price will vary depending on the content of the special order, but it will be 20% or more of the basic model price. Custom-made guitars are limited to Tokai electric guitars of 80,000 yen or more.

● Special color: Finish the desired color on your model. The colors are all the colors of the Tokai Electric Guitar series. In addition, we also manufacture possible color finishes. However, it is limited to Tokai electric guitars. Please refrain from repainting the colors of other manufacturers. Please refrain from minor changes due to pickups and parts from other manufacturers.

● Orders and inquiries for custom-made guitars: Please apply or contact us through a Tokai product dealer.

We will inform you of the custom price and production period.

As of January 1, 1982, custom orders are available only for the above items.

Please be sure to apply for inquiries and orders through Tokai product dealers. We cannot accept direct orders from the head office or each sales office. Please be aware in advance.

(Note 2) About the left guitar / Currently, Tokai does not make any left guitar.

 

[Sigmania]

So "Special Colors"in 1982 were:

Sonic Blue (SO),
Candy Apple Red (CR),
Gold Metallic (GM),
Lake Placid Blue (LB)
Metallic Green (MG)

This is different than what I had been thinking for a long time based in part on what is on the Faber site.

Guess it really depends on which year you are talking about.

By 1984 some of these colors the Faber site lists are catalog options (i.e. BL, FO, SW, N, RR, etc.)

 

[Sigmania]

Natural (N) is added to the other special colors in the 1984 catalog (Vol. 8) .

INFORMATION
About special color order
Special colors can be ordered for the 5 series TST. TSS, TTE, TPB and TJB.

Mania-like colors that can be said to be a symbol of oldies models produced in small numbers from the 1950s to the 1960s. Candy Apple Red (CR), Sonic Blue (SO), Gold Metallic (GM), Lake Placid Blue ( LB), ] Metallic green (MG), and natural (N). TST. TPB, TJB, 50,000 yen or more, for all models, 5,000 yen higher than the list price. In addition, the same body color finish on the headstock is the same as the special color, which is a uniform 5,000 yen increase from the list price of all models. In addition, if the special color series is head painted, the total price will be increased by 10,000 yen. It takes about 3 months after receiving the order.