Concerned about Tokai Fake - what is my recourse?

[rayspang]

I think we need some photos of genuine MIK Tokai's to compare with?
I'm still confused over this Fakai label. Were they true fakes, or was it just unauthorized production from a factory that had previously produced tokai's, and had lost the contract as lower cost point guitar production shifted to China. From what I've read, the Canadian Distributor lost his Tokai distributorship over this fiasco as well. Any authorized MIK Tokai photos would be appreciated for comparison.

 

[Big_Mike]

The moderator over at Almost Tokai thinks that this is actually a legit, made in Korea Tokai, but does have some questions on it.

Does anyone know what pickups these guitars had in them? I want to swap them out for something, they seem very muddy.

 

[Paladin2019]

The moderator over at Almost Tokai thinks that this is actually a legit, made in Korea Tokai, but does have some questions on it.

Does anyone know what pickups these guitars had in them? I want to swap them out for something, they seem very muddy.

Personally I'm 100% certain that this is fake. There's *nothing* right about it. Even the truss rod cover is incorrect. I've just noticed the pickup rings and knobs are wrong for a Custom type as well. Google some pictures of the LC models, you'll very quickly see the difference (EDIT: having done so myself I've actually seen what appears to be a geniune sunburst LC model, but this must be a recent introduction and the other arguments still stand.)

With that in mind there's simply no way to know what pickups there are in it. Genuine Tokai MIK's have Gotoh MK3's.

 

[Big_Mike]

This guitar, regardless of whether it is an authentic Tokai, is really good quality. I intend to keep it and upgrade the pickups. I am just curious more than anything about whether it is authentic.

 

[JVsearch]

But if a dealer/retailer is proven to be purposely selling fakes then it's plain fraud. Doesn't really matter how long they've had the guitar in that case, if a buyer wishes to take legal action that's a personal decision.
Probably not for a low cost model, maybe so for an expensive one.

For criminal fraud you'd have to get the police involved, but there is no time limit for criminal stuff.

Sure a civil prosecution could be taken but it will cost him more than the guitar, and it probably wont succeed. The time starts running when the issue is discovered or ought reasonably to have been discovered, and 5 years is too long IMO.

 

[Paladin2019]

This guitar, regardless of whether it is an authentic Tokai, is really good quality.

This seems to be a common theme with the Canadian fakes. They are not bad guitars, certainly on par with other MIKs at their price point. Just not real Tokais.

 

[Big_Mike]

I contacted the retailer, and he is really great guy who got back to me right away. He stated that the Canadian distributor had permission to have models branded Tokai, and that there is a lot of misinformation out there. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but I wanted to pass on the information.

 

[Paladin2019]

I contacted the retailer, and he is really great guy who got back to me right away. He stated that the Canadian distributor had permission to have models branded Tokai, and that there is a lot of misinformation out there. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but I wanted to pass on the information.

Do a forum search on the Zakk Wylde model, and branch out from what you find there. The guys who run the almost-tokai board managed to get in touch with Tokai's president who clearly stated that there were unauthorised fakes being made for the canadian market.

A lot of the information is second hand, some is controvertial, and businesses are going to act in their own interests. Best to make up your own mind.

 

[Big_Mike]

The guys at Almost Tokai think this is an authentic Tokai, but are tracking down the information. They say that there were custom Tokais made for the Canadian market in addition to the fakes. Whether I have a fake or an authentic custom one is up in the air.

 

[space_114]

Big Mike hit the nail on the head !! Although a Faki - it was built direct for the Canadian market in the same factory as the genuine mik Tokai just to better spec's and with Canadian wood not the crap wood Tokai was using on their MIK versions and 1/4 sawn hard rock maple necks .. .. Overall a much better axe than what you would have paid for if you received a genuine MIK tokai - ( in the world of fakes this usally never happens except for the Canadain Fakai's) Look around this site and you will quickly realize that these guitars are really nice - Who cares what Mr X says at Tokai. The reality was he took too long to supply the Canadian market so the distributor went direct to the factory and had them made BETTER !. The MIK Tokai's other than the name aren't really Tokai's either ... The Tokai MIK Mfg plant wasn't theirs anyway .. Don't feel burned ... you have a really nice guitar.. :wink:

 

[Diamond]

Who cares what Mr X says at Tokai. The reality was he took too long to supply the Canadian market so the distributor went direct to the factory and had them made BETTER !. :

What a bizarre post.

So what you're saying is...
If a distributor in country X decides he's waiting too long for his order of genuine Tokais to be manufactured, he should just get factory X to make him unauthorized "Tokais" without the knowledge & permission of Mr X at Tokai Japan?

Is that what you're saying?

Don't you think the Canadian distributor should have put his own name on the headstock of the guitars he had made?...he could have named the guitars, "Ganif".

 

[Paladin2019]

Big Mike hit the nail on the head !! [snip]

Didn't we agree over PM's that people might take you more seriously if you weren't such a fakai fanboy?

 

[Polarbear]

Just realised its fake? :-?

I looked at the headstock once, and knew its fake. The binding looks wrong, and the Tokai logo and headstock inlay looks cheaply done/rushed and wonky.

Plus Korean Tokai's don't have serials IIRC, is this correct guys?

 

[Polarbear]

Fake Tokai Headstock...

Real Korean Tokai Headstock...

If you can't see quality differences, your blind :lol:

 

[space_114]

Who cares what Mr X says at Tokai. The reality was he took too long to supply the Canadian market so the distributor went direct to the factory and had them made BETTER !. :

What a bizarre post.

So what you're saying is...
If a distributor in country X decides he's waiting too long for his order of genuine Tokais to be manufactured, he should just get factory X to make him unauthorized "Tokais" without the knowledge & permission of Mr X at Tokai Japan?
Don't you think the Canadian distributor should have put his own name on the headstock of the guitars he had made?...he could have named the guitars, "Ganif".

Is that what you're saying?

Bizarre not really happens all the time in business, YES that's how it went down ..Why would the Cdn Dist "Mel" was his name change the name ? He had the rights to the Tokai name and a distribution network and demand - obviously if he changed the name this would deter his sales. By the way Tokai Factory X keep in mind was not a real Tokai factory and were making guitars under several brands including Tokai and also making hardware and supplying to "many" known brands. Like most asian companies they will take your money and put their own mom's names on them as long as you are willing to pay. This is only one reason Tokai figured out the subbing your Mfg to a second party sometimes is not the greatest idea long term - Ultimately this partership makes you as in this case, loose control of your brand & product integrity - Happens all the time in business (espically with asian companies even the big ones). In this (rare) circumstance the product was better than what Tokai had spec'd to be made from this same mfg plant destined to bear the true Tokai name. The reality is Tokai snoozed and they loosed and thus the reason why although they admit to never making a Zakk Wylde / Eddie Van Halen copy (Id love to have one if i could find one) and fast to call the unauthorized Canadian models Fakias state very little of what the circumstance was at the time during 2004-2006 that led to this circumstance here in Canada. It's not like Canada is known as the Mecca of copy infringment when it comes to anything... Just a business gap that led a little guy to make some decent $$$ of the back of another while still managing to provide a excellent quality product as for the ethic's that's another story ..lets just say nothing Asain companies don't do everyday :lol: My only motive posting this regardles of anyone's opinion is to simply state the correct information for anyone that may have one of these Canadian Fakai's and feel that they have a less thn quality product regardless of the stupid name on the headstock . I never call them "real" Tokai's as they were made without the permission of Tokai (I call them sort of Tokai's) The issue to date with the MIK Tokai's is you can have a Real authorized MIK Tokai or an unauthorized Canadian MIK Tokai and the mostly found in the U.K real crap made in China copy Tokai's .. The info is here to educate one to identify one from the other...

 

[JVsearch]

So you're just trying to say that the quality of the Fakais is in fact, pretty good and probably better then the actual MIK Tokais?
(I think this has been suggested on this forum in the past, and generally accepted)

And you're stating that they used better quality wood, as one of the main reasons the Fakais are better?

Given what I've picked up about the way things are done behind the scenes, I'd buy that if some hard evidence could be produced.

 

[space_114]

So you're just trying to say that the quality of the Fakais is in fact, pretty good and probably better then the actual MIK Tokais?
(I think this has been suggested on this forum in the past, and generally accepted)

And you're stating that they used better quality wood, as one of the main reasons the Fakais are better?

Given what I've picked up about the way things are done behind the scenes, I'd buy that if some hard evidence could be produced.

They really are better than the real Tokai MIK versions ... Many on this site clearly have stated this.They are better mainly due to the wood and the 1/4 sawn necks and the Canadian sunburst ones i have seen appear to have been book matched tops or atleast appear to be better matched than the genuine ones i have seen. I am not a Faki lover nor do i give a rats behind one way or the other if they are good or crap , as I have an Epi Les Paul , a Gibson and two Canadian Tokai's ...just my opinion having played Les Pauls for over 20yrs

Attached below you will find a link to the two i own up front , my other two are an Epi and a 2007 Gibby standard. I will take a few close up pictures and post them here of the two Canadian Tokais i own to illustrate what i have said - The wood (neck) is Canadian hard rock maple and 1/4 sawn !!! and the bodies are mahogony .. honestly just really nice guitars for the $$$.... my Zakk weighs in over 10lbs and my gold top comes in around 8lbs if i recall correctly. Everytime i take one or the other in for a restring job or adjustment whatever music store i take them to in Toronto all say ... yeh these were really nice when they were around for the cash then and still play really well...should have grabbed one at the time ..

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/space_114/Blower/P1150262.jpg

 

[Polarbear]

Vox AC30 behine the chair?

 

[space_114]

Vox AC30 behine the chair?

No a Vox AD100VT .. I also use a 1966 Fender Princeton Reverb a Roland micro cube and a Pod XT run thru a Berringher keyboard amp. I have small kids and mainly only get to play at nights so for the most part i am a night owl playing with head phones thru my Pod ... Except when no one is around...Then the neighbours tell my wife the day after :lol:

 

[Polarbear]

Vox AC30 behine the chair?

No a Vox AD100VT .. I also use a 1966 Fender Princeton Reverb a Roland micro cube and a Pod XT run thru a Berringher keyboard amp. I have small kids and mainly only get to play at nights so for the most part i am a night owl playing with head phones thru my Pod ... Except when no one is around...Then the neighbours tell my wife the day after :lol:

Still a nice amp

AHAHAHA, you legend :lol: