Best of - MIJ guitars

[johan]

So, if you were to pick the best or most sought after guitars ever produced in Japan which ones would you choose in the following categories?

Les Paul 50's

Les Paul Custom

Les Paul Special / Junior

ES-335

Other Gibson lawsuits

Stratocaster

Telecaster

Odd-balls
---------------------------------------------
Specify brand, model, year?

- Johan

 

[swampy]

best and most sort after are not necessarily the same.

There are some very very good lesser know makes that knock the socks off the bigger boys

 

[johan]

True! But if you were to pic one of each as players and keepers, which one would you choose?

Greco EGF1200
Greco SA1200
Tokai ST-100
etc??

 

[villager]

lp 50's most sort after..
greco egf-1800 or 2500 (never seen one)/Tokai 1978-1981 LS-200/Navigator LS-350

others..: my favs and sort after..

LP custom
Greco EG-1000 series

LP JNR
Greco / Orville by Gibson

ES-335
Greco SA-1200/Tokai ES-150

Strat
fender JV-115's Tokai ST-100's

Tele
Fender JV-95 tokai TE-200

 

[MIJvintage]

+1 swampy

Best is a term describing a completely subjective matter.
Most sought after is completely different, and is argueably much less subjective but rather based on trends in the collectible markets.


Certain people only collect & play the very top end products, because that is what they like.
The top end products are usually going to be the most sought after but does that necessarily make them the best?

I don't particularly go for the higher end product, and for several reasons.
I have however ventured into the higher end products, and I have questioned the idea of does the extra expense actually get you a better guitar?

Here is one example.
I purchased a completely original & totally unmolested 1981 Tokai LS-120 Love Rock; 1 piece body, solid (not laminate) flame top, DiMarzios, original HSC, a sure fire 9.0++ example.
I bought it to find out what all of the fuss is about, and to my disappointment I didn't see what all of the hype was concerning these.
Of course, I could have gotten a dead guitar but it wasn't a bum guitar; it was rather just not worthy of the price that it commands, as compared to lower priced options.
I eventually sold the LS-120 for $2300, and the new owner was quite happy. Great.
Here is a picture of the completely original 1981 LS-120 Love Rock.

Now an opposing example.
I have a thing for the lowly Burny RLG solid tops, and an RLC from time to time.
I have had many, many, many & much lower priced Burnys through my hands that honestly kick that LS-120 squarely in the a**.
As far as playability, tonal response, the things that really matter from a player's perspective, the lower priced alternatives really have a lot to offer, over the more sought after, and very expensive top end models.
This concept does not apply only to Burny & Tokai brands but to others as well.

Let's look at it like this.
Three of the four below pictured Burny examples could be purchased for the approximate price of the LS-120 that I sold for $2300.
Sure, the LS-120 is a very sought after & collectable guitar but the four Burnys are better (best) guitars, from my perspective as a player.
Why buy one very sought after model when you can get three better guitars, for almost the same money?
Make cents?

 

[villager]

Rich ...I have to disagree with most of the above,

the burnys are good guitars, but you can't convince me that a multi-piece backed, poly finished instrument, which sold for 50000yen when first released is consistantly better than a one piece backed nitro finished, hand built instrument, retailing for nearer 200000yen.....

to date I have owned over 200 guitars of similar high spec to the LS-120, and as many of the lesser specced and cheaper type mid range guitars...

again and again I pick up the top end guitars to record and play with because they simply play and sound better.......

 

[MIJvintage]

Rich ...I have to disagree with most of the above,

the burnys are good guitars, but you can't convince me that a multi-piece backed, poly finished instrument, which sold for 50000yen when first released is consistantly better than a one piece backed nitro finished, hand built instrument, retailing for nearer 200000yen.....

to date I have owned over 200 guitars of similar high spec to the LS-120, and as many of the lesser specced and cheaper type mid range guitars...

again and again I pick up the top end guitars to record and play with because they simply play and sound better.......

Mark, It certainly is your prerogative to agree or to disagree; that's all good.

I am merely passing along some information of my own personal experience.
The 1981 LS-120 was a great guitar but honestly, I can get the same, or better performance form a guitar that commands 1/4 the price tag 8)

I am however not attempting to convince you, or anyone else, as to the virtues of the great quality per dollar ratio that the mid grade guitars offer, as compared to the higher priced, high end, collectable models.

I understand the concepts of 1 piece bodies, nitro finishes, higher grades of lumber, and how these are supposed to combine in theory, to make a better instrument.

I believe there has been some considerable debate in this forum, and in others, concerning the concepts of single piece versus multi piece bodies, nitro versus poly finishes, etc., and I don't believe there seems to be a clear winner on these issues, as far as the opinions that I have reviewed.

I believe there may also be some other issues at work here, which could be that you and I both have our own individual preference, as far as grade of guitar in general, is concerned.

I have a preference for basically the mid grade stuff, where as you have a preference for the high end goodies.
I am quite used to what I prefer, and like wise, you are used to the higher grade guitars.
I believe we both have our individual bias, in this equation.

What I get out of the middle grade guitars is many fold; affordability, quality, playability, tonal response, etc.
You get basically the same thing from the higher end guitars that you prefer, with the exception of a much higher price, and a collectability factor.
This is where we differ.
I don't want the higher price tag, and I don't need the collectability factor, that the higher end offers.
I want a guitar that talks to me in a quality fashion, without breaking the bank, which is what the mid grade guitars offer.

You prefer extremely high quality, demand caviar, and are glad to shell out the big bucks.
I prefer very good quality, am quite happy with anchovies, and I prefer the much smaller price tag.

 

[luis]

Sorry I don?t catch about Burnys too I had 3 of them and never felt them as great guitars but good guitars.I sold all the three for a reasonable price each one(one was 400 euro 3 years ago because it was a bit reliced)as I usually do.I agree about the hype regarding price asked for a LS-120 (I feel they are too much overpriced) but that?s because people is speculating with them and getting one is really nearly impossible if you don? buy through certain dealers nowadays but I understand this is a supply/demand rule and I can?t say anything bad about this.....low supply high demand= high money--if you want one just pay the price asked......I won?t and I LOVE Tokais....Have to try a LS-120 against a LS-320 I have some strong feeling regarding LS-320 are better guitars hands down but I haven?t made a direct comparison....

I also don?t buy guitars because their collectable factor but because I like the guitar(or as some say" it speaks to me") and I can say I?m very very demanding nowadays,a guitar that can be good and is good enough could not be my taste(altough I always recon its good points).

 

[johan]

OK, so it's, if not impossible, very difficult to find a LS-120/EGF1200 for ok money today. Any great MIJ guitars still out there for decent money. Let's say $1000 tops for a LP in Japan. Any Tokais or Grecos?

 

[villager]

for 1000 maybe a decent LS-60 or mid range greco, but nothing with top specs or nitro..

 

[bart]

So is a LS-200 three times as good as a LS-60 or a Burny?
What would be an equivalent to LS-60 then, a Epiphone LP?

 

[johan]

Hmm, the US$ is so low these days lets step up to $1500 -
Price in Japan, not European dealers.
That 150-160k yen right? Should get me a prettty good LP.

 

[villager]

yes in japan a nice one for that, but add shipping and taxes to the price..

 

[JohnA]

Dont forget the hardest part is actually finding one, although they are available, high-end vintage Japanese guitars are far from common even in Japan.

 

[luis]

LS-320 yes it?s 3 times better than a Burny LS-60 and well worth the money,it?s a different guitar and you would noticed it at the moment if you handle both at the time as I was lucky to be able. Regarding LS-200 (recent 2000-2004 models) are two times better and worth the money is my guess....

 

[Anonymous]

So is a LS-200 three times as good as a LS-60 or a Burny?

How do you measure whether a guitar is three times better than another guitar? Is a ?30,000 car 3 times better than a ?10,000 car? Well to some people, it is. Is a ?1500 hi-fi 3 times better than a ?500 hi-fi? Probably to me it is, but not to most people.

I have guitars that cost me 3 times what other guitars cost, so they have to be significantly better to justify keeping their place in my small collection. Some do, others don't measure up, so they go.

It seems rather pointless to ask a question like that - for many of us, buying or owning a guitar isn't just a practical decision, it's an emotional one too. An instrument that manages to make you feel really happy (and maybe even play better) is almost beyond price, isn't it?

Mike

 

[villager]

i agree with strat man

its an unanswerable question...

 

[bart]

Sorry about the question then. Some say it's definetly 3x better, some say the 3x price cannot be measured(which is in a way wierd). It's up to personal preference, like discussing what color is the nicest.

The comparisment with a car i cannot understand, it can be measured, it's such a complex assembly compared to a guitar.

 

[Anonymous]

Well it's also a question of long term value. If I found a spare ?15,000 and bought an early 60s Strat, I wouldn't expect it to be 15 times better than a Custom Shop Strat I got for ?1,000 on eBay. But I would expect it to hold it's value better because of it's rarity. It would probably be a better investment than leaving the money in the bank.

Mind you, I'd be scared to take it out of the house, which would rather defeat the point of buying a beautiful guitar.....

 

[MIJvintage]

stratman323 wrote
>How do you measure whether a guitar is three times better than another guitar?<

Great perspective, and spot on.


1. Best.
2. Most sought after
Again gentlemen, these are different concepts, and this thread is getting into the realm of comparing apples to oranges.

Just because something is the most sought after & more expensive, does not necessarily make it the best.
This applies to more than just guitars too.

Blowing big bucks on a hopeful investment & holding value is one thing; having the best guitar is potentially something completely different.

I think the bottom line is, if you want the high end collectable stuff & are ready to dump some serious cash on a potential investment, then go for it.
If you want something that will accomplish 90% of what that guitar gets you, for only 25% of the cost, then go for it.