Advice... what to do on my strats?

[brad347]

OK, so here's the dilemma... some parts of the story have been told before but I'll include them for the first-time reader. I promise this is not a duplicate post, I have a new question at the end. Here goes. A few months ago I got an '84 TST-56, sounded good, looks great, poly finish, E-series pickups.

Last week, got a good deal on an '81 (or so) ST-80 Springy Sound. Nitro finish, sounds good, looks alright... U-series pickups.

First of all, I can't keep both. Second of all, I was shocked when I saw the U-series pickups because I understand that these guitars were supposed to all have E-series pickups. I also noticed on further inspection that these pickups looked like they had been removed... SO, I emailed the guy I bought it from. I had no reason to doubt his honesty, because he had no clue about the pickups. He didn't even advertise the guitar as an ST-80, that's how I got it so cheap. He didn't know that one tokai was different from another until I told him... then he found the "80" sticker on the neck heel that I told him to look for. So he would have no reason to change the pickups. He had just bought the guitar for very very cheap 24 hours before he sold it to me. SOOO... when I emailed him about what I found he emailed the original owner of the guitar, who he bought it from. The original owner changed the pickups some years ago for some Fenders, and keep the originals safely boxed away. When he discovered that the Tokais actually sounded better, he stuck 'em back in.

So it appears that maybe this U-series pickup thing was a mistake at the factory...

SOOOO my question is... do I switch the pickguard from the ST-80 with the one from the TST-56? The ST-80 sounds good as-is but I'm wondering if it would sound better with the correct pickups. I would only have to de-solder two wires to switch the entire pickguard, and wouldn't have to disturb the joints on the pickups at all.

I imagine that this would hurt the re-sale value on the TST-'56 but help it on the Springy. Is this a bad thing to do? Should I just watch E-bay and this forum for a set of E-series pickups? Anyone have some for sale??

Or do I just forget that I ever saw the letter "U" and let my ears be my guide? The Springy sounds a little different than the TST-56 but I wouldn't necessarily say better or worse. Definitely slightly different (only slightly). It FEELS so much more alive and resonant in my hands, and feels less like a new guitar, which I like. I think the Nitro finish is really important. Maybe I should just put the other pickguard in just to see...

I'm open to the opinions of the experts... and... anyone have some E-series pickups for sale? :wink:

 

[javelin70]

I guess the TST-56 has the altered headstock? If it has it will always be worth less than if it has the correct Fender shape, most people seem to dislike the slighly pointy headstock (I don't). The Springy being a ST80 will definitely be worth more money than the TST56. If the pickguards look the same with the same pots/switch etc. I would switch them and keep the ST80, especially if it sounds better acoustically and also sounds better with the E pickups. On the other hand I really like the sound of the U pickups on my metallic red TST50/60 strat .

Mike

 

[brad347]

Yeah the TST-56 has the reshaped headstock. That will always make it worth less UNTIL and only until some flavor of the month rock star appears on the cover of Guitar Player with a re-shaped headstock Tokai :roll:

I'm thinking about experimenting. I also like the sound of the U pickups so I'm thinking of leaving well enough alone. I'm getting the guitar set-up professionally because I was having a hard time getting it to set up just right with .011s (it had .009s on it for years) and after that I'll make my judgement.

Do you own/have you tried a guitar similar to yours with E pickups? What is your opinion?

 

[javelin70]

I'm thinking about experimenting. I also like the sound of the U pickups so I'm thinking of leaving well enough alone. I'm getting the guitar set-up professionally because I was having a hard time getting it to set up just right with .011s (it had .009s on it for years) and after that I'll make my judgement.

Do you own/have you tried a guitar similar to yours with E pickups? What is your opinion?

The slots in the nut will have to be slightly enlarged if your going to use the heavier gauge strings. The russrod will probably have to be adjusted as well as the intonation.

I have not tested any Tokai strat with the E pickups unfortunately, I bought a new TST50 back in '85 but traded it for a JSX70 in '86 (stupid, I know :roll. That one had U pickups I guess, I don't remember, it sounded good anyway.

Mike

 

[brad347]

I think the nut slots may be a little too deep as is on two of the strings. However, I just got a call from the shop saying it's been set up so I'll go pick it up and see what they did with it.

I might just keep the U pickups in for now, sell the TST-56 and keep my eye out for some E-pickups to ttry.

Oh, i don't know. Decisions decisions.

I've never been a strat player anyhow, I'm a jazz and freelance guitarist in NYC, I got the Tokai to round out my arsenal of quality guitars to use on studio sessions. I can't afford a pre-CBS or early CBS strat so I went Tokai instead.

 

[mike martin]

hi
i got a springy1980 st85 a few months ago it had sd ssl1's instaled
they are supposed to be exact copies of vintage strat pickups
then i got a hold of a set of v1 and u's to try from a forum member
i kept the u's . they deffinately sound better to me than the duncans.
i had a tok goldstar a couple of years ago with the e's fitted and what i remember of them the u's are diferant from the e's, but i prefer the u's.
also i have seen some posts that sometimes these springys came with u's
as the electrics at the pots never seemed to be touched . also does your strats have the same scratch plates 50's have single ply with 8 screws and 60's type have 11 screws
mike

 

[brad347]

Just got the springy back from the setup. Yes, both my guards have fewer holes and are the single-ply, 50s type.

I'm liking these U's quite a bit, too. I'm thinking I may keep them.

I'll keep mulling it over.

 

[chu71]

i was thinking of selling my 79 springy st 55, i even made an offer but to no agreement with the potential buyer.
then i read all rhe ifo about this model on the forum, opened up the guitar and saw it was, as told by the experts here , u pickups

well come to think of it, they were the reason for me to not like the guitar. to me , these u s just dont cut it. i think the guitar is awesome built, maple neck etc etc...but tone wise...just not my thing..is it my ears? probably, but the fact is these Us are the lowest pick up in quality, compared to the other models available for springy sounds, the vs1 (di marzios) and the e, i think.

now i will probably keep the guitar...or not, cos the buyer just got back at me...just my 2 cents anyway. i was actuaally thinking of fitting some new pups on the springy to upgrade and get that strat sound im sure lies somewhere beneath the springy...maybe bare knuckles...any suggestions?

 

[chrisheyes]

Bare Knuckles will definately fit the bill as they have vaious models to suit all tastes:-

Apache's - 50's Sound Sultans - Knopfler
Irish tour - Hot 60's Strat - Rory G / SRV
Trilogy - Very Hot Malmsteem / Blackmore

I got a Fender SRV Strat with Irish Tours Neck and Middle and Sultan in the Bridge - Fantastic

I've put a Trilogy Set in my Silver Star - Stonking Harmonics

I've just put a set of Custom '54 pickups made by David Barfuss on Germany into my ST-100. These are really warm and not as shrill as the E Series VS-1's that I've taken out. They have been made with Alnico III magnets rather than Alnico V.

I have some Kent Armstrong Texas Special, Van Zandt Vintage Hot and Fender Texas Special Strat Sets doing nothing at the moment. If anyone wants them

 

[chu71]

can u describe em a bit? the vacant ones i mean...i f i do sell this springy i ll be left with a sstar thats actually muddier than the springy but twangier...

 

[chrisheyes]

chu71 Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

can u describe em a bit? the vacant ones i mean...i f i do sell this springy i ll be left with a sstar thats actually muddier than the springy but twangier...

Here goes !!

Fender Custom Shop Texas Specials are Hot Wound Pickups. They have a higher output volume with more mid emphasis. However if turn the volume down a bit they can give you back the vintage sound. These pickups are used in the very high end Fender Japan models and lots of the signature USA models - Knopfler / Beck etc.

The Kent Armstrong Pickups were the cheapest and this is reflected in the tone. They are high output, sound great distorted but suffer for clean work. They sound the most harsh, but are better than most stock copy pickups.

The Van Zandt Vintage Hot had too much top frequency bias for my liking I had to turn the treble down on my amp. ( Fender Blues Junior - Guitar Port). Clean these pickups have the mojo - Scatterwound by the man that re-wound the pickups in Stevie Ray Vaughan's No.1 Strat.

Tokai E Series Pickups were considered, at the time to be the best available mass manufactured pickps to give a vintage tone.

Although DiMarzio not longer make the VS-1(Also known as the Tokai 'E' Series) Pickups their class of '55 model are supposed to be the same, see response that I received from Dimarzio Tech Support

Subject: RE: Dimarzio VS-1 Pickups
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:40:30 -0400
From: "DiMarzio Tech" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book
To: Chris Heyes

The magnet type is Alnico 5. All other specs are the same as those shown for the Class of ?55 (DP119), as described on our website.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Heyes
Posted At: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:29 AM
Posted To: Tech
Conversation: Dimarzio VS-1 Pickups
Subject: RE: Dimarzio VS-1 Pickups

Hiya thanks for the reply

I attach a link to a page in the Tokai registry where it states the pickups used in the high

end models St-80, ST-100 and ST-120 were Dimarzio VS-1's

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/oldies_p2.jpg?PHPSESSID=fb93156f9358c8296f0915547d5fe8e0

I would be very grateful if you would forward me the history records you have on the VS-1's

i.e. Magnet type Alnico IV or V and the inductance / resistance figures for the neck, middle and bridge.

Thanks

Regards

Chris

The key is to know what tone you are aiming for and what the wood on your guitar will give you. As these are the major factors in achieving the this goal.

Silver Stars tend to be lower quality than the Springy's - Mine is an SS40 therefore only 40,000 Yen in 1979. So there is bound to be a compromise in quality on materials used.

Only having 3 bolts in the neck of your Silver Star will definitely affect the tone of your guitar. But so will the quality of the electronic components.

I would suggest that you upgrade the electric components / switches / pots to high grade USA and go for Vintage Hot pickups which have been scatter wound. This will give you a lot more clarity and depth of tone.

I'm in the process of building a Strat and have bought a pre-wired harness of top quality components from this guy's ebay shop

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Pauls-Electric-Parlor-Guitars_W0QQssPageNameZviQ3asibQ3astoreviewQQtZkm


I'm no great expert but would also suggest you email a guy in germany called David Barfuss - He makes great strat pickups, and is also a mean player too. He may be able to offer you some advise on what type of magnet ( ALnico II, III, IV V)/ winding direction / polarity and output you should be looking for to get the tone you desire out of your guitar.

[email protected]

His pickups can be bought here:-

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Davids-Guitar-Pickups_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm

I hope this helps :roll:

 

[togps]

.... Silver Stars tend to be lower quality than the Springy's - Mine is an SS40 therefore only 40,000 Yen in 1979....

Silver Stars were available in late 70ies/early 80ies as SS38,40,48,50,60,80

 

[chrisheyes]

togps
Silver Stars were available in late 70ies/early 80ies as SS38,40,48,50,60,80

Agreed - Please excuse me

The higher grade Silver Stars will be very rare as they weren't generally exported at the time of manufacture, only being readily available in Japan.

However, I think my point remains valid though togps

If chu71's SS is a lower model Silver Star then an upgrade of the pots / switches / capacitor etc could improve the timbre of the note amplified.

 

[chu71]

mine s an ss38, it definitely looks much cheaper than my st55 79 springy...looking at the inside, they seem to be worlds apart

the neck of the sstar feels significantly thicker than the springy, pups are muddy but u can hear a nice twang from the guitar. whereas the springy...well its a beautiful guitar, very well built, but to me, those u pickups are just weak...

chris, great info, thx a lot, but u guys reckon it s worth my while to upgrade all electronics on it, or maybe i shopuld try to find a higher standard silverstar?

 

[Blues Junior]

If you want great pickups, consider Kinman, Blues or Woodstock set. I have Woodstock set on my guitar, and i love them! :wink: 8)

I ordered the NoSolder Install kit with 7 piskups combinations with no switches, the neck + bridge is very twangy.

 

[chrisheyes]

It would be easier to answer the question if you could tell us what type of tone are you trying to achieve.

Alternatively you have to think what is your budget for a new guitar. Getting a top of the range will probably involve buying one from a person in japan as they are quite rare in europe.

Is your intention to have a guitar to play, or to keep it as an investment.

The body and neck on your Silver Star could be just as good as some of the higher grade models, it's just the quality of the Tremelo, tuners, pots, capacitors and jack connections that separate them. The really top end model Silver Stars will be made of better wood for the body and from less parts - just like the Springy and Goldstars.

If you are keeping the guitar to play it then upgrade away. I only paid ?150 for my Silver Star. I know it's never going to be a collectors prized piece so I'm upgrading it. I've changed the pickups and turned it all Ritchie Blackmore Style :wink:

 

[chu71]

well im gonna sell my springy it seems so for the sstar...agree with u chris, maybe i shouldnt try to score a clean vintage start tone from a s38 silverstar...probably it wopuld make a much better job for an srv type tono, slightly muddy and twangy (the nice way)

so once i have some dough i ll get the pick ups and later probably the pots etc. need some guidance on pots too...a for the pups, ready to hear your opinions...

alo, i play 10 s as the thinnest gauge, actually 11s are my favourites for a strat tone...will that be a problem for the original nut? i think when i got mine it had 0.9s which i havent changed after 5 months....

oh, and i m definitely after a player, not looking at an investment, otherwise i d keep the springy...

 

[javelin70]

so once i have some dough i ll get the pick ups and later probably the pots etc. need some guidance on pots too...a for the pups, ready to hear your opinions...

If you change the pots buy CTS, they are excellent! I use them on several guitars and I also have a 22 year old amp with CTS pots, all of them work perfectly. If you also plan to change the switch buy a CRL (Centralabs), they are also excellent. Although on my Tokais I use the original pots/switches etc, I have no problems at all with them. Except for the cheap plastic switch in the new AST-50 I bought (same as Ibanez uses, YM-50), I will change that to a CRL.

Mike

 

[mike martin]

hi
CHU
jav is spot on with the pots but be careful when you fit them if your electrics are fitted on the same type of sheilding plate that is on springys
as the cts shafts are slightly larger , i tried to drill larger holes and wrecked the brass shielding plate also for chu
never got chance to go to bank ref sale
will try tomorrow

 

[chu71]

yeah well ill have to take it to a tech, as the most complicated job i can do on a guitar is taking the pickguard off or screwin the strap locks harder lol

but will definitely go for an upgrade, i guess that s a what 60 eur job for a luthier?

mike no prob, just let me know


cheers