1982 Fender Style Serial Numbers

[Sigmania]

Just wanting to log these to get an idea of the number of guitars made in that year beginning in February and year's end and also what fits where.

I can bracket the 1982 guitars using the emergence of the Fender style serial numbers on one end (February) and the block/script logos (cross referenced with production stamps) on the other end.

The one 3 piece script logo December guitar is an outlier as is the one ATO provided that may have been one of the guitars siezed and later re-badged as a block logo.

Rosewood

L00173 (spag logo, TE70YSR January stamp)
L00204 (spag logo, ATO provided)
L00500 (Feb stamp, spag logo, ST55MGR, ATO provided)
L00505 (Feb stamp, 2=1 GS X, ST50R, switch December 1981, 1D1)
L00568 (spag logo, JB65NR)
L00601 (spag logo, ST70BBR, ATO provided)
L00841 (spag logo, ST80 MRR)
L00889 (spag logo, ST50MRR)
L00899 (spag logo, ST50MRR, unknown stamps)

L01128 (spag logo, ST50MRR)
L01179 (March body stamp, spag logo, ST50 MB)
L01392 (spag logo, JB50MRR)
L01431 (spag logo, ST50YSR, Faber)
L01621 (spag logo, ST80MRR,ATO provided)
L01762 (May code, spag logo, ST55GMR, ATO provided)

L02009 (spag logo, Jeff Beck mod?)
L02121 (June stamp, block logo, ST50OWR, re-badged lawsuit seizure? ATO provided)
L02xxx (June stamp, ST50MRR)
L02559 (spag logo, TE80R BL)
L02734 (April code, spag logo, ATO provided)
L02897 (March code, spag logo, ST60)

L03248 (block logo, TE, MBR, ATO provided)
L03355 (spag logo, JB50 matching headstock)
L03389 ? (August code, 8=15MRH, matching head, JB50 MRR)
L03451 (spag logo, JB45YSR)
L03488 (July stamp, ST80R)
L03507 (spag logo, TE50 BBR?)
L03773 (block logo, ATO provided)

L04352 (Nov. stamp, ST50MRR, June 82 or 92 pots, partscaster?)
L04663 (spag logo, ATO provided)

L05065 (spag logo, poss new decal, ATO provided)
L05626 (spag logo, JB45MRR) 1982 JB45 MRR
L05689 (November stamp, 11=12, block logo, ATO provided)

L06095 (November, spag logo, ST50MRR, Reverb)
L06241 (Jan stamp, spag logo, ATO provided)
L06308 (script World decal, stamps not visible)



Maple

0211 (spag logo, ST120GS Cliff)
28?? (spag logo, ST80LB)
3854 (spag logo, TE80YS ?)

10069 (spag logo, ST60YS)
10340 (spag logo, ST?? BB)
10500 (March code, spag logo, TE55N)
10600 (March, 3=2 body, ST50YS)
11058 (December stamp, block logo Springy) 1982/83 Block Logo Gallery
11502 (December, 3 piece script logo) 3 Piece Script Logo Goldstar Decals 1982/83
12008 (May code, ST50)
13123 (Nov. stamp, 11=12, block logo)
13350 (October stamp, 10=5, spag logo, ST60 ?)
13583 (November stamp, block logo Springy) 1982-83 Springy Sound Decal change....
13541 (spag logo, ST50YS)
13681 (TE50BB ?)
14167 (November stamp, 11=12, block logo Springy) Info on Springy sound 1983/4 ST?
14983 (October body stamp, possible partscaster) 1982 Fender Style Serial Numbers

Six Digit Serial Numbers Starting with 10xxxx - Hard Punchers, ST70, SS60, Etc.​

(Spaghetti logo so 1982)
101708
102058
102088
103337
103786
103979
104814
104898

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

13350 (ST60 ?)

Funny that you mention that, this one got me thinking about the same thing (when did the spaghetti logo end and what's the overlap with block logo guitars "were there still spaghetti logos in 1983 or did the block logo era start back in 1982?"






Seller mislabels it as "1981" but so far it looks like October 1982 just with a pretty high serial. But there are 11nnn block logo guitars sold in the UK, so spaghetti logos were still going out at the same time elsewhere?

L00173 (TE70YSR January stamp)

Woohoo! My guitar is a data point!

 

[Sigmania]

I think that one is an out of sequence October 1982 guitar.

Depending on where the guitar was sold, the decals varied by this point. I am guessing this is a JDP guitar or something similar? Because in the UK, this probably would have been a badged as a block logo guitar.

But lots of disruption to the supply line after the lawsuit that summer in the UK and a bunch of guitars were apparently re-badged from the ones seized or during that time and later got a block logo. And some block logos were switched to script.

Re-Badged Or Re-Labeled Tokais

Must have been maddening back in Japan to sort all of this out.

 

[Sigmania]

What I have learned repeatedly in correlating serial numbers with pot dates, production dates, ads, etc. that for the most part things move along linearly and make perfect sense, but there are outliers. Either batches or individual guitars that got pulled out of the normal production line and appear to be out of sequence. I try to highlight those with a different color type when they surface.

 

[ATO]

I've an ongoing list of L serials I've spotted if it's any help

Red Tele spag logo L00204
MG spag springy ST55 L00500
Black st70 spag logo L00601
SPAG MR L00841
GS st50 spag logo L01431
MR ST80 spag L01621
Gold spag ST55 L01762
MR spag logo st50 L02***
OW block logo st50 L02121 6=11
BB neck and matching head spag logo L02734
MB Tele block L03248
OW block logo L03649
MR Block logo Tele L03773
MR springy spag logo L04352 (June 82 pot dates)
MR Springy spag logo L04663
LPB L05164
N ST50 spag logo (poss new decal) L05065
Placid blue block logo L05164
Double bound breezy L05210
N block logo L05689 11=12 mine
Tele block L05911
Butter scotch Tele Spag logo tst85 L06241 cliffs
Spag logo Tele TST50 L07005 (Niels de blok)
Black Tele block L07015
GS *logo removed* L07**7
MRR ST70 slab board L08805 (fender decal)
OW TST50 script L09544 June 83 6=7
Script TE50 GSR breezy L10194
OW super edition script L11189
MR Block logo matching head L11236 5=12
ST80 YSOR VS1's Script Goldie L11357
ST50 script Goldie L11982 refin tho 7=8
OW ST50 script Goldie L11600
SO script logo L12041
SO block logo L12125 5=12 mine
Black script goldie L12513
OW ST50 Script L12968
OW goldstar script L13318
Black goldstar script st60 L13823
Red goldstar script L14386
SO matching head spag decal (replaced) L14447 6=7
Red goldstar script L14728
GS goldstar TST50 L14913
GS script goldstar L14927
Metallic blue Goldie matching head L14947
N (was GS)TST80 refin with spag logo?? L15572
OW spag logo replaced (same seller as 14447) L16609
Jazz Sound bass L18985
OW strat L19313 1985
AST L20353
Script breezy TTE50 L20567
Quilted maple Tele TTE60 L22647
Script ST50 LPB L23031
ST36 HSS Ltd Edition OW strat L23594 (1985)
MG St55 matching head script L24085
YSR TST50 L24424 (pot date Feb 86)
Leftie script FO ST60 L24588
Leftie script red st55 L26593
MB matching head script st55/65 L26954
GS st50 script logo L30085
Metallic blue TST50 L30658 '-' body stamp
Black AST L30891

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks, I tried to integrate the ones that seem to be 1982 into the list above. Much appreciated!

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

I think that one is an out of sequence October 1982 guitar.

That it seems borderline out of sequence is what got my attention, so I started comparing serial ranges and noticed the slightly lower serial UK block logo guitars and wondered if that could help lining up things better, or help improving that old serial number chart floating around.


18,000 guitars made in 1982 but only 3100 in 1983, that doesn't seem right or does it?

Depending on where the guitar was sold, the decals varied by this point. I am guessing this is a JDP guitar or something similar?

Hard to tell where it was sold, it's currently for sale in Germany. Of course, there's always a chance the decal was replaced unfortunately. Here's another one (alas, no stamps, I hate that) (#13641).

Did you mean to write JDM? That would be my point/theory, at some point between possibly late 1982 and early 1983 we see hastily rebadged and regularly badged block logo guitars in the UK (and we don't know what was delivered to the other EU markets at that time), marking the beginning of the logo changes.

At the same time Tokai may still have produced spaghetti logo guitars for the domestic market (among others), which became only visible in years of international internet trading, with serial numbers that may only seem out of sequence with e.g. the batches that were delivered to the UK in late 1982 and later?

I imagine the guitars have been produced, shipped to the UK, then seized and maybe even returned to Japan for rebadging and shipped to the UK again, causing some delay until they actually ended up in stores. In the meantime continuous production in Japan passed the serials shipped to the UK by several thousands? Would that make any sense?

 

[ATO]

It would make sense that the guitars that were caught up with customs in the UK and then went back to the factory for new decals would also get new serials.

 

[Sigmania]

Something like that.

ATO posted a bill of sale from the original owner for a block logo sold in the UK. My memory is the sale date may have been October? Need to check the block logo thread to see his post.



And I know someone else who bought a new block logo in the UK in August or September? I would need to verify that by looking at my correspondence with him.

But again, that’s UK only. Would be cool to have a multidimensional table showing different countries eventually.

Which brings up another sore point, my desire to overhaul the Registry and correct all the misinformation on there re dating and identification.

 

[Sigmania]

And this table looks like an adaptation of the table Gottfried has on the Faber site. Ok for general guidance but not super accurate.



Here is the one on the Faber site:



What I am noticing already is there are batches of numbers. If you noticed the distribution of the numbers in 1982 it’s not even across the year. So I have some doubts as to whether these are actual number counts. That is something I’m gonna look at overtime and see how this shakes out.

 

[Sigmania]

I just started this other thread for the 1983 serial numbers

1983 Fender Style Serial Numbers

and you can already seem that those tables have many of these numbers as 1984 numbers.

Rosewood

L02121 (June stamp, out of sequence, seized spag logo>block?)

L09544 (June stamp, script logo, U pickups, TST50)
L11189 (June stamp, script logo, E pickups, Super Edition)
L11982 (July script logo, U pickups, TST50MRR)
L12968 (Can't see stamp, U pickups, replaced pots)
L13115 (August stamp, E pickups, TST60YSOR) 1983 Goldstars Script Logo

L23526 (July stamp, script logo, U pickups) 1983 Goldstars Script Logo

Maple

13103 (January stamp, changed decal to Quality Instruments?) 1983 Goldstars Script Logo
13696 (February stamp, changed block>script logo) 82/83 ST100
15289 (May stamp, block logo ST55MR)
16131 (June stamp, block logo ST55SO)
16721 (May stamp, E pickups) 1983 Goldstars Script Logo


107628 (June stamp, script logo TST70YS)

 

[Sigmania]

I think because no one had understood that the pickups switched in mid 1983 along with the script logo and the rather unusual mid year catalog. I had to piece that together using pot dates, etc.



Note that the script logo to this day is still represented as beginning in 1984 in the Registry.

Heck, I found that logo as early as 1970 on Tokais...

 

[Sigmania]

And that one is not that far out of sequence. I think of these guitars being produced in batches. Not exactly sure how the neck plates got assigned.

And as for the different markets, I have found a Script logo 3 piece decal Goldstar that was made in December of 1982 apparently.

That strongly argues for the different labels for different markets notion. Or it was re-badged like ATO's TST100 MG SN 13696 made in February 1982. 82/83 ST100

SN 11552

3 Piece Script Logo Goldstar Decals 1982/83

 

[Sigmania]

Funny that you mention that, this one got me thinking about the same thing (when did the spaghetti logo end and what's the overlap with block logo guitars "were there still spaghetti logos in 1983 or did the block logo era start back in 1982?"

View attachment 36759
View attachment 36758
View attachment 36760
View attachment 36761

Seller mislabels it as "1981" but so far it looks like October 1982 just with a pretty high serial. But there are 11nnn block logo guitars sold in the UK, so spaghetti logos were still going out at the same time elsewhere?



Woohoo! My guitar is a data point!

And I don't think this is a 1983 guitar becasue by October we are way past the 13000 SN range.

1983 Fender Style Serial Numbers

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

And this table looks like an adaptation of the table Gottfried has on the Faber site. Ok for general guidance but not super accurate.

View attachment 36780

Here is the one on the Faber site:

View attachment 36781

What I am noticing already is there are batches of numbers. If you noticed the distribution of the numbers in 1982 it’s not even across the year. So I have some doubts as to whether these are actual number counts. That is something I’m gonna look at overtime and see how this shakes out.

The tables are identical. And they are identically outdated I assume, that's why I mentioned them here. It may not be possible to improve the last 2 years much but getting '82 through '84 adapted to latest knowledge would be a win.

That the numbers are not distributed evenly over a year is apparently typical for the entire industry, for example the narrated full version of the 1957 Fender factory film states that they had to lay off staff in the periods past e.g. the Christmas upswings even back then, it's described as being pretty much a "seasonal" business (like probably all "luxury goods" businesses).

And I don't think this is a 1983 guitar becasue by October we are way past the 13000 SN range.

Yeah that's why I found that guitar puzzling. Serial is not late enough to be an October '83 Goldie with a replaced decal, but the serial seemed to reach into 1983, which doesn't match with the stamps. But then again....

And as for the different markets, I have found a Script logo 3 piece decal Goldstar that was made in December of 1982 apparently.

<Sigh> Given that the neck plates are almost certainly produced and assigned to guitars in batches and not necessarily sequential within a batch, it seems possible that there is an overlap between 1982 and 1983 serials. The other explanation would be that spaghetti logos were applied to some (JDM etc.) guitars in 1983, for example until the script logo was available, or...

That strongly argues for the different labels for different markets notion. Or it was re-badged like ATO's TST100 MG SN 13696 made in February 1982. 82/83 ST100

...different markets, yes.

Back to the 1982 events - I've been reading up on this a little to refresh my memory and had these thoughts (not that you asked for them ):

What we know is that the UK shipment was seized already in May 1982, and it looks like it surprisingly contained guitars produced in 1981. Block logos seem to appear (other than assumed years ago) in 1982 too, thanks to your research.

I hope you don't mind the shipload of speculation here: A theory could be that the decision to change the logo was independent from (and preceding) the seizure of the guitars and maybe the seized shipment even contained both spaghetti and block logo guitars, because the sole documented reason for the seizure was the usage of the word "Strat", and is not mentioning or even objecting the logo font.

I assume that Tokai could not be sure when they get their shipment unlocked, so they may have just sent off at least a partial new shipment of guitars to fulfill their contract, hastily adapted to the new problem, which may be one explanation for the guitars with just the "Strat" removed from the block logo decal.

We don't know whether the seized shipment was returned to Japan or reworked in the UK, but a possibility is that they were either shipped back to the UK or released to dealers not all at once but in smaller portions over a longer time, as part of new orders - that's why some have the spaghetti logo changed to block, that would be an alternative explanation why some have a block logo with "Strat" removed from "...of the good old..." line and that could also explain how the "script logo with remnants of the block logo" or even crazier, ST100s with '81 serial and script logo came into existence.

Please feel free to move this to some more appropriate thread, it's only speculation about what's just a facet of 1982/83 serial numbers.

 

[Sigmania]

I’ve seen zero evidence of spaghetti logos extending beyond 1982.

That is a theory I’ve heard expressed on this forum in years past. Claims that in some European countries that the spaghetti logo continued on, but I have seen no evidence for that at all beyond speculation and unfounded claims.

What I have seen are old photos recycled in Tokai catalogs for things like locking nuts in the accessories section that extend into 1984, but they were recycling a photo for a part. The headstock was background.

 

[Sigmania]

That the numbers are not distributed evenly over a year is apparently typical for the entire industry, for example the narrated full version of the 1957 Fender factory film states that they had to lay off staff in the periods past e.g. the Christmas upswings even back then, it's described as being pretty much a "seasonal" business (like probably all "luxury goods" businesses).

That is not quite what I was saying. If you look at the numbers, notice that there are a good bit more examples that start with L00 and L01 versus L02, L03, L03, L04, etc.

It is as though these were batches and not a linear unit count.

Need more data points.

So far it looks like this:

L00173 (spag logo, TE70YSR January stamp)
L00204 (spag logo, ATO provided)
L00500 (spag logo, ST55MGR, ATO provided)
L00568 (spag logo, JB65NR)
L00601 (spag logo, ST70BBR, ATO provided)
L00841 (spag logo, ST80 MRR)


L01128 (spag logo, ST50MRR)
L01392 (spag logo, JB50MRR)
L01431 (spag logo, ST50GSR, ATO provided)
L01621 (spag logo, ST80MRR,ATO provided)
L01762 (spag logo, ST55GMR, ATO provided)


L02121 (June stamp, block logo, ST50OWR, re-badged lawsuit seizure? ATO provided)
L02559 (spag logo, TE80R BL)
L02734 (spag logo, ATO provided)


L03248 (block logo, TE, MBR, ATO provided)
L03451 (spag logo, JB45YSR)
L03507 (spag logo, TE50 BBR?)
L03773 (block logo, ATO provided)


L04352 (spag logo, November ST50MRR, June 82 or 92 pots, partscaster?)
L04663 (spag logo, ATO provided)


L05065 (spag logo, poss new decal, ATO provided)
L05626 (spag logo, JB45MRR) 1982 JB45 MRR
L05689 (November stamp, block logo, ATO provided)


L06241 (spag logo, ATO provided)


L12041 (December 3 piece script logo)

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

It is as though these were batches and not a linear unit count.

Need more data points.

Exactly. I get what you're saying/seeing but that can be a lot of things from "that's what they did" to "pure coincidence" because for each 1,000 of produced vintage guitars only a handful shows up on the internet each year and of those even fewer have a readable/known serial number, not to mention that only like 1 in 100 gives away the production stamps that makes the serial number a real data point. The sample size is just way too small, otherwise we could as well derive from that distribution that for some reason the 03000 range consists mostly of Breezys.

There's simply way too many potential variables in this, beginning with the way (and where!) the neck plates were produced and fitted with serials, the way Tokai planned production in general (how many in stock ready for shipment, how production for consecutive orders is scheduled) and how parts production and assemby was planned in general (all the time parallel, parts production in turns for specific models, in runs for each order or runs for batched orders...).

We can't derive any of this from pictures unfortunately, so if there was a list of questions we'd really need to have answered by Tokai, "how were serial numbers assigned to guitars, how and where were the neck plates produced and stamped" would be one of them.

My gut feeling is that a production of neck plates in smaller batches with non-consecutive numbers may or may not have been less economic (unless produced in-house and not by a 3rd-party supplier pricing by volume) and that would've caused an additional overhead for tracking the numbers in making and using them up, instead of just ordering a few 1000 with consecutive numbers for each type of scheme, then grabbing them off a pile on the assembly stations. That's allegedly how Fender did it in the 50s/60s, and the box where they were stored got kicked over a few times over the years so the numbers were getting an increasingly unreliable production year indication in the later years.

Of course, it looks like Tokai has reset numbering several times in the years before and probably after 1982, but that was yearly and likely caused by the need/wish to indicate the year in the first digits, which the F-style scheme got rid of. The key question is probably "what could've been the benefit of that extra complication?" if the serials are merely a way of giving each guitar a unique identifier so the customer has something for insurance and in case of theft etc.? Of course the latter is yet another thing that may be likely but we can't know for sure.

 

[Sigmania]

To clarify, I am not saying they are random either. The few production codes I have say that absolutely are not.

I am saying that I am not sure that the number after the L0 is a running count through the year without interruption.

We shall see. I will try to keep adding numbers and see if the gaps fill in.

 

[Sigmania]

You know, maybe the reason I am seeing so many loaded on the front of the year (before July) is the seizure and lawsuit.... Wow.

That would make sense that it would stymie production.