Wear in finish (LC85)...

[shan564]

Hey guys, I just bought a used LC85 (or LC95... the model numbers seem to be more or less meaningless) in black. The finish is covered with tiny hard-to-notice scratch marks all over - it seems like the guy used something abrasive to clean it, or maybe the finish is cracking. They're small enough so that I didn't even notice them when I was first looking at the guitar, but when it became a bit more noticeable when I went to polish it (and now it's just bothering me). The guitar is only three years old, so it shouldn't be quite so worn down... so I wanted to know, what's the best way to restore the finish?

Around the Internet, I've seen some people suggest auto wax, etc, but I'm not sure if that would affect the tone. I've also seen some nitro lacquer for sale online - would there be anything wrong with putting a nitro lacquer on top? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

On a side note, I prefer guitars with flamed/quilted finishes over solid finishes... so if anybody wants to trade for an LS model or a different color, I'm open to offers (I'm in Australia). If your guitar is better, I'd even consider putting in a bit of cash.

 

[marcusnieman]

Put up some pictures.....

 

[shan564]

Sure, here are some pics of the guitar:

I tried to take a picture of the scratches... they were really small, but here's the best I could do?

 

[pompadour]

i have an ls75 in black that had a swirl of hazy scratch marks on it when i bought it .

i used Meguiars fender instrument care kit on it with excellent results.

the swirl and haze remover really did exactly what its supposed to.

 

[al3d]

SHan, those marks are quite normal on a BLack Finish. you'll get those after a few months usually with any black guitars. Whatever you do, it will NEVER stay perfect. Black = Mirror basicaly. As soon as you do a micro scratch, it will show unfortunaly.

You could try taking the guitar appart, and buffing it nicely with "swirl remover". I'm not sure how are your skills with refinishing, but doing a Nitro coat, means completely taking the guitar appart, wet-sanding her so the new clear can stick to something, doing the clear cloat, just enough coats, wet-sanding again from 600 to 4000 grit, then complete buffing.

it IS quite a job to do just to remove a few minor scratches.

PS...Autowax..wich Swirl Remover is part of, will not affect the tone.

 

[shan564]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I used to have a used Chinese LP copy that had a perfect finish, but I think it's just because the previous owner never really played it... or maybe my eye wasn't as discerning at the time.

Anyway, I guess I'll run down to the nearest auto parts store and pick up some swirl remover. It's good to know that this is normal and not the result of any sort of mistreatment. Thanks again!

 

[al3d]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I used to have a used Chinese LP copy that had a perfect finish, but I think it's just because the previous owner never really played it... or maybe my eye wasn't as discerning at the time.

Anyway, I guess I'll run down to the nearest auto parts store and pick up some swirl remover. It's good to know that this is normal and not the result of any sort of mistreatment. Thanks again!

Don't forget that if the Axe has an actuall Nitro FInish..it's a LOT MORE fragile then Poly or Urethane you see on most guitars, like that chiness copy. Nitro has it's flaws..but for tone..can't be beatem

 

[shan564]

The LC85 doesn't have a nitro finish, does it?

 

[al3d]

The LC85 doesn't have a nitro finish, does it?

now THAT..i could'nt tell ya. i'm not familiar enough with these models.

 

[shan564]

I'm pretty sure it's just a thin polyurethane finish. To the best of my knowledge, only the really expensive models have a nitro finish.

 

[messer]

I'm the first owner of this black LS-75 (2008), I care about her, but I know there's nothing I can do about this small scratches if I want play this guitar.
They started to be visible after two weeks of playing...
It's just a dubious "charm" of black guitars dude.
On transparent finishes they are just **** hard to spot.
This scratches come from contact with my shirt while I'm playing (and I wear only shirts made from organic materials, so they are not abrasive), and from cleaning this guitar with a cloth. Cloth is silky but the dust which it collects makes such tiny scratches.





I don't see these scratches while I'm playing it.
I have photos with myself playing this guitar, made with proper lightning and expensive camera, and this guitar looks stunning on them. That tiny scratches are not visible.

Buy some swirl remover if it's really to hard for you to bear it
But it's better to spend this money on some useful stuff like Fret Doctor or a new set of strings.
Above all: Play this guitar! There are so many hot girls that you can pick on this guitar :lol: :wink:

 

[JVsearch]

...Nitro has it's flaws..but for tone..can't be beatem

People are starting to think that the thickness of the finish is what helps with tone, not what type of finish it is. So a thin poly finish can be just as good as a thin nitro finish.

Also, you don't get a fully nitro finished Tokai LP until you get up to the 350k to 400k yen range, the base coat and colour coats are poly. Can there really be an advantage to the tone by having just the top coat nitro? Many Japanese guitars (and Fenders) are nitro top coat and poly coats underneath for the obvious reason that poly cures a lot faster than nitro.

 

[messer]

Ahh, I've forgotten to add this photo



(It's Neil Young's Old Black.)

 

[al3d]

I have to disagree with you there. even a Thin Poly finish is still enought to kill tone, reason?..because it SEALS the wood completely, Nitro Breaths and basicalty never fully hardens.

...Nitro has it's flaws..but for tone..can't be beatem

People are starting to think that the thickness of the finish is what helps with tone, not what type of finish it is. So a thin poly finish can be just as good as a thin nitro finish.

Also, you don't get a fully nitro finished Tokai LP until you get up to the 350k to 400k yen range, the base coat and colour coats are poly. Can there really be an advantage to the tone by having just the top coat nitro? Many Japanese guitars (and Fenders) are nitro top coat and poly coats underneath for the obvious reason that poly cures a lot faster than nitro.

 

[Diamond]

Is that what you've read on the internet, or is that what you've experienced in real life?

I've played poly finished Love Rocks that sounded better than Nitro finished Love Rocks...side by side, same amp, same settings.

The woods dead, why does it need to breathe.

I have to disagree with you there. even a Thin Poly finish is still enought to kill tone, reason?..because it SEALS the wood completely, Nitro Breaths and basicalty never fully hardens.

...Nitro has it's flaws..but for tone..can't be beatem

People are starting to think that the thickness of the finish is what helps with tone, not what type of finish it is. So a thin poly finish can be just as good as a thin nitro finish.

Also, you don't get a fully nitro finished Tokai LP until you get up to the 350k to 400k yen range, the base coat and colour coats are poly. Can there really be an advantage to the tone by having just the top coat nitro? Many Japanese guitars (and Fenders) are nitro top coat and poly coats underneath for the obvious reason that poly cures a lot faster than nitro.

 

[al3d]

It's my experience. Even dead wood likes to breath..hehe. i build guitar also and i've always liked Nitro best, but like all things in life, many finish for many players..

Is that what you've read on the internet, or is that what you've experienced in real life?

I've played poly finished Love Rocks that sounded better than Nitro finished Love Rocks...side by side, same amp, same settings.

The woods dead, why does it need to breathe.

I have to disagree with you there. even a Thin Poly finish is still enought to kill tone, reason?..because it SEALS the wood completely, Nitro Breaths and basicalty never fully hardens.

...Nitro has it's flaws..but for tone..can't be beatem

People are starting to think that the thickness of the finish is what helps with tone, not what type of finish it is. So a thin poly finish can be just as good as a thin nitro finish.

Also, you don't get a fully nitro finished Tokai LP until you get up to the 350k to 400k yen range, the base coat and colour coats are poly. Can there really be an advantage to the tone by having just the top coat nitro? Many Japanese guitars (and Fenders) are nitro top coat and poly coats underneath for the obvious reason that poly cures a lot faster than nitro.

 

[Amo]

At about 100 db I find theres not alot of difference between nitro and poly

 

[JVsearch]

I have to disagree with you there. even a Thin Poly finish is still enought to kill tone, reason?..because it SEALS the wood completely, Nitro Breaths and basicalty never fully hardens.

There's also the John and George story from the 60s when they were given an Epiphone Casino each, and they both scraped all the nitro finish off them and stated that "they then became much better sounding guitars"...

I was always under the impression that nitro, once cured, was actually harder and more brittle than poly, hence the fact that you get a lot of finish cracks on older nitro guitars but not on poly finished ones?

It doesn't alter the fact that many of guitars purchased by people here on this site (myself included) are poly finished (or poly undercoats with a nitro top coat) and there's a lot of positive talk about their tone. I think in the end that the finish is a very small contributor (if at all) to the overall tone when compared to pickups, woods, hardware, strings and even the nut.

 

[JVsearch]

At about 100 db I find theres not alot of difference between nitro and poly

That is true, and it's far more important for live work to have an amp that produces a decent balance or has the EQ to get it, and a guitar that plays cleanly.

 

[al3d]

It doesn't alter the fact that many of guitars purchased by people here on this site (myself included) are poly finished (or poly undercoats with a nitro top coat) and there's a lot of positive talk about their tone. I think in the end that the finish is a very small contributor (if at all) to the overall tone when compared to pickups, woods, hardware, strings and even the nut.

I totaly agree there with ya..