Novice looking at buying 1st Tokai LP...

[T-10]

At the age of 40 I decided a month ago to have a go at learning to play guitar. Unable to justify the expense of a 'proper' guitar and amp I opted for a ?50 strat copy and amp to see if guitar was for me. Although I'm no natural, I'm enjoying it enough to know that I'll persevere, and think I'm ready for a better setup.

I like the idea of a Les Paul, especially having already got a strat (well sort of), and internet research lead me towards Tokai which seems to be the best of the copies. I have a few questions though, bearing in mind I'm a novice.

1 - I've seen mention of different neck profiles and fat necks. Maybe it's an optical illusion, but on photos of Les Pauls, the fretboard seems wider than a strat. Is this the case? I'm just wondering if this might be a problem with my smaller hands.

2 - I've learned that MIJ = Good, MIK = Bad, or at least less good. I don't want to spend an absolute fortune, but can you tell me how much better a guitar you get between spending say ?600 on LC70/80 or ?750 on an LS150?

3 - What's the difference between LS and LC (custom models)?

4 - A lot of differences between models just seems to be the type of wood used. Is this correct. Are there any constructions/finishes best avoided?
For instance, when I see the word laminated, should I be concerned?

5 - Who are the best people (with good prices) in the UK to buy from? I know of RichTone, Coda, Hartnolls, and Regents. Anyone else worth looking at.
5a - The guitar photos on Coda's website appear to be for used (and damaged) guitars. I presume that the prices are for new guitars?
5b - Are the guitars on RichTone's website available and at those prices? It's just that, for example, the LS80F I was considering isn't on their Ebay site, which I would have expected to be up-to-date. (My main obstacle to using Richtone is that although they're only a short drive away for me, according to the website there are no customer collections, and they only deliver to the address on the credit card, meaning that I couldn't have it delivered to my work address, and I can't get time off to be at home for some time. Why is life so complicated?)

6 - I was looking specifically at the LS80F at ?529. Any particular thoughts on this, or any of the following alternatives?

LS75Q ?579
LC80 ?579
LS150 ?749
LS125 ?649
LS125 SEB ?649
LS135 ?649

7 - I'm looking at getting a Vox Valvetronix AD30VT amp. Anyone any thoughts on whether or not this would by a good choice for use with a Tokai?


Thanks.

 

[guitarslinger]

Hi mate - good to know we are getting some hits on our EBay site!!

Richard from Rich Tone Music here...i'll try and tackle some of your questions for you although there are many more erudite persons on this forum who may wish to contribute.

1) Neck Profiles.
A neck profile is a 3D thing - not just the width, but in depth too. Les Paul necks do tend to be a little wider and deeper, generally, but the best thing you can do if you haven't been playing guitars for a long time is to try some out and see what is right for you. Gibson do Les Pauls with "skinny" 60's necks for example too which i personally don't like - it's a personal thing which develops over years....or if you have small hands/large hands, whatever feels natural.

2) MIJ/MIK
I know what you are getting at with this and agree with your general sentiment. However, it is not a case of one being good/bad more a case of, one is built for ?300 and another is built to sell at TWICE the price. There is inevitably a compromise in terms of construction materials, finish and pick ups etc etc on the cheaper ones, and more attention to detail on the more expensive ones.

Either way, i'll go out on a limb and say that they'll be a better guitar than a ?50 starter guitar. It comes down to a) how much you can reasonably afford, and b) can you tell the difference? b) comes with playing more instruments so you can tell the features apart.

In terms of specification, the LS150 is a better guitar than the LS80 and is held by many to be one of the best guitars tokai produce value for money wise. Whether spending the extra ?150 is going to be worth it is somethng you'll have to work out for yourself. I've been lucy enough to play Tokai guitars from LS48s right through to LS230's and enjoyed playing them all. The 230 is an absolutely gorgeous guitar, but is made for someone wanting specific things, an LS80 still rocks fine and every time you pick it up you don't get the shakes in case you drop it.

The guy from Hartnoll will confirm how nice the 230's are...we've both got one from Tokai recently - AWESOME piece of kit!!!

Anyway, i digress....

3) LS is a Les Paul standard-ish type of design where as the LC is a les paul custom. The main difference for you is that the LS generally features a mahogany back with a maple/sycamore laminate/solid top, whereas the LC is a mahogany back/top design. This gives it a slightly deeper tone, beautiful and very ROCK, either are tradionally accepted as being perfect matches of tone woods.

The LC generally has a little more obvious - BLING factor as well such as gold tuners/pick up covers etc.

There are probably other areas of difference too, but in terms of up front appearance this pretty much covers it

4) In terms of combinations, so many things work well together it's hard to think of any real no no's. Yes, a lot of the differences are around the construction materials. In general, solid pieces of wood resonate better and provide a more natural/full sound than laminate. This is not to say that laminate is horrid, it's just a way of making a guitar a bit more affordable with some sacrifice of tone properties. Again, it depends on what you are after if you just have to have the best, then stick to solid woods in general, if you are on a budget then don't be put off by a laminate maple or sycamore top, they really do sound good. The solid maple top just takes it up a notch...

5) We carry a range of Tokai guitars at all times and i'm sure the other shops do too. There are quite a lot of dealers out there in the UK, but the shops selling the greatest volumes are obviously most likely to carry the greatest range to choose from. We have a simple returns policy and 100% feedback on EBay which should give you some confidence and i'm sure the operations are totally professional guys who would look after you should you see anything you fancy.

5a) You really should ring CODA about this, as far as i'm aware all their guitars are new, they generally do say when they are shop stock etc. All our guitars pictured on EBay are for Mail order sale only and are not hung in the shop (see later)

5b) Collections - we are currently fitting out a store in greenhill village (seems to be taking ages) and as soon as that is complete we will be launching our new web site and store and collections will be openly offered. While we have building work going on you need to ring James on our hot line number and he'll sort you out and make sure it's convenient to pop round. 0114 2745 777. We hope everything is going to be finished by start of November.

Credit Cards etc....yes, we only deliver to the cc registered address to prevent fraud. It's a shame but music retailers get hit big time for this sort of thing and it's the safest for everyone. Once you've ordered from us and we've got a bit of history we'll generally consider a different address.

Tokai UK order guitars in Bulk, they arrive, they get sold and are out of stock until the next order from Japan arrives. Bob at Tokai UK is currently out of LS80F, but we do have some available coming in on the next delivery at the end of October. Just give us a call if you want to find out more. The stuff on Ebay is all in stock and available for immediate delivery unless otherwise specified (LS1000).

The LS80F is a cracking guitar which gives a good mix of high end features and economy. All the guitars you highlighted are pretty damned good. It's all down to personal taste, ears and wallet after that really. The general rule is to go for the best that you can afford as it will stand you in good stead as your playing and ears develop. For not much more you can get into LS125 land where some SERIOUS guitars can be found. I've owned LS80s though and swear by them. A great quality guitar!

I hope that answers some of your questions. The guys here on the forum are quite friendly sorts and i'm sure will fill in anything that i've missed.

You can call us on our number and we'd always be glad to talk to you about Tokai, or even PM me.

Best wishes

 

[T-10]

Thanks for the reply Richard. It must have taken longer to type than my own wordy post!

Plenty there for me to consider.

I'll just throw another question out there. Is SEB construction a good thing, bad thing, or 'just different'?

 

[guitarslinger]

Hi There

This is something a bit different which adds a little bit to the price. It's another step in the production process you see, and the end result is a bit more sustain out of the guitar.

Basically, the SEB (sound stream) is a cross cut mahogany body. So sandwiched between the back piece of wood and the top piece of wood is a thick layer of wood where the grain runs at 90 degrees to the other pieces. The theory is that it gives the guitar more "honk" and sustain, which is generally considered to be a good thing.

I've got an LS125 SEB in my collection at home at the moment and it really does have a sweet sound.

It's one of those things that some people will love and some people won't really see the need for it. If you play Les Pauls a lot then you will pick up the nuances of an SEB model and one that is just a solid piece of mahogany etc. Price difference isn't really that great between and LS125 and an LS125 SEB, so i'd personally recommend that you go with one which feels the best, sounds the best to you, and is in the finish you prefer....

Tokai can custom order guitars in any finish but they will take AGES.

 

[BaggyPants]

Quick unsolicited feedback:

I bought my LC80 from Richard at Richtone Music. Top bloke, top guitar, can't go wrong

Bryn
(Barnsley, S. Yorks)

 

[bruceboomstick]

I have an LS70F (Now LS80F) and just cannot fault it - I just love playing it. As a long term user of Skinny strat necks I was a little concerned about swapping to a fat neck - however it's no problem adapting and swapping between the too.

And I have to say that every time I see a picture of your BaggyPant's LC I want one ever more (and I've never been a fan of customs in general, but that has a certain something........).

 

[BaggyPants]

Lovely, ain't she ?

 

[bruceboomstick]

Don't!!!

I have no will power as it is !!!

good job I have to insure my bike this month or I'd have an explaining job on my hands.........

 

[Amo]

The Vox ADxxVT amps are great, ive got the 30watter myself and its VERY versatile and perfect for all sorts of musical situations, if i had to pick a fault i'd say the built in effects are a bit limited in their scope, but perfect for a quick FX fix



and I love the reverb