There doesn't seem to be much love for the Talbo here with most posts going to Les Paul copies, followed by the Strat and Tele copies. Why the following for copies of another brands models rather than an 'original' Tokai style. I bought a MIJ Love Rock brand new and to be fair it was far better quality than most Gibson Les Pauls Ive looked at, but in the end I sold it and kept my Gibson purely from an investment point of view - Gibson prices have rocketed lately.....
Not much love for Talbo?
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I've had my eye on buying a Talbo for a few years but they usually came up for sale at the wrong time for me. I recently found and bought a Talbo which I think is from around year 2000, but without a serial number so I've no way of being certain. Its a four bolt neck, rosewood fretboard and the body was painted metallic black with Talbo in white on the lower horn and black 3ply pickup plate and six screw back plate. The alloy body is fully hollow with a shaped soft foam insert. 3 single coils config with 5 way switch just like a strat. and fret dots up the middle of the fretboard. The black poly paint was flaking in large pieces so I stripped it and polished the aluminium to show off the metal body. Plays well and sounds good.
From that info has anyone any idea of the year and model?
From that info has anyone any idea of the year and model?
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I would say different strokes for different folks.
An aluminum body with a pointy shape probably turns people off. The design looks dated in my opinion, a sort of 80s idea of the future.
But somebody likes them as they have been in production on and off for decades now, and there was a lot of investment made in producing them.
Same with the SEB design. Not cheap. Limited appeal.
Same with the MAT guitars. Not cheap when they were made, but carbon fiber throws people off.
I have a couple carbon fiber mountain bikes and I love them. My guitars are made of wood.
But to be honest, I am attracted to certain things and not to others.
The dimpled headstock ALS and ULS models don't appeal to me.
The AST shapes do not appeal to me in general though some are pretty cool to be honest.
Personal preference.
But it's good for you that you don't have a lot of competition in buying.
Not as great if you need to sell them....
An aluminum body with a pointy shape probably turns people off. The design looks dated in my opinion, a sort of 80s idea of the future.
But somebody likes them as they have been in production on and off for decades now, and there was a lot of investment made in producing them.
Same with the SEB design. Not cheap. Limited appeal.
Same with the MAT guitars. Not cheap when they were made, but carbon fiber throws people off.
I have a couple carbon fiber mountain bikes and I love them. My guitars are made of wood.
But to be honest, I am attracted to certain things and not to others.
The dimpled headstock ALS and ULS models don't appeal to me.
The AST shapes do not appeal to me in general though some are pretty cool to be honest.
Personal preference.
But it's good for you that you don't have a lot of competition in buying.
Not as great if you need to sell them....
Btw, I still have some Ibanez guitars from 1979/80/81 with active electronics on board.
That was huge there for a while with some Greco/Roland models going wild.
Roland G-303 - NED Synclavier II Digital Guitar - As Owned By Joh McLaughlin - Guitar Player Magazine - September 1985
Now everything is pedals and modelers, etc. and the guitar itself is used for signal creation, not modification so much.
That was huge there for a while with some Greco/Roland models going wild.
Roland G-303 - NED Synclavier II Digital Guitar - As Owned By Joh McLaughlin - Guitar Player Magazine - September 1985
Now everything is pedals and modelers, etc. and the guitar itself is used for signal creation, not modification so much.
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Granted - but the used prices have kept increasing - could have got one for about £400 a couple of years ago but now start bids have risen to about £600.
I like it because its different - Tokai daring to do their own thing. and I like all things mechanical so the alloy body interests me too. I also have a couple of carbon fibre acoustics from Emerald Guitars - who also have done their own thing by not slavishly copying a wooden acoustic and making the most of the carbon material to make a more ergonomic design.
I like it because its different - Tokai daring to do their own thing. and I like all things mechanical so the alloy body interests me too. I also have a couple of carbon fibre acoustics from Emerald Guitars - who also have done their own thing by not slavishly copying a wooden acoustic and making the most of the carbon material to make a more ergonomic design.
I don't know if we are brainwashed by Gibson and Fender nostalgia to favour Les Pauls and Strats. Nothing wrong with them but if we applied the same attitude and feelings to the cars we buy - we would all be driving Morris Minor in the UK and saying how great they are. Nothing much has changed with LP's and Strats in over 63 years.....
But having said that, I am as guilty as everyone else - just built a tube amp based on the '57 Fender 5E3.......tweed tolex and all.
I hear you, but I think you are conflating two different concepts. Replicating a good design does not equate to being "slavish".
In my mind it is more like "If it ain't broke don't fix it", or don't reinvent the wheel.
Admittedly, there is a degree of discomfort in going for the new take on things. For me it comes from my own past experiences of buying something different and then regretting it because it was hard to find parts for, kept breaking, etc. I'm thinking of an MCS BMX frame when I was 12.
I have learned that there is ofen a reason why some things are more popular, and it is often because they are better designs, and the focus and attention has been on refining that design. Notice that when Fender strayed from its original designs such as in the CBS era that they went into decades long decline.
I drive a Toyota. It is a great car and my second one. My first lasted 200,000 miles with no issues. Before that I had Hondas, also no problems.
My family members against my recommendations bought all sorts of cars made by Ford, GM, Jeep, Volvo, Chrysler, etc. They all have had problems I never had with my Hondas and Toyotas. They had parts issues, what I often saw as scheduled obsolescence. Imagine a $1,000 headlamp on a Cadillac....
There are different goals when people design things. Sometimes it is not to create a great product that is well made. Sometimes it is to sell you parts and get you to return to their service department.
One approach lures those who want to get something and be done with it, the other lures those that want to be different in some way even if it may not be a better idea.
And there are costs associated with going with the new approach. Look at the fate of Delorean Motors or Saturn Motor Co.
It shouldn't take long to understand that there may be other reasons than people being slavish.
In my mind it is more like "If it ain't broke don't fix it", or don't reinvent the wheel.
Admittedly, there is a degree of discomfort in going for the new take on things. For me it comes from my own past experiences of buying something different and then regretting it because it was hard to find parts for, kept breaking, etc. I'm thinking of an MCS BMX frame when I was 12.
I have learned that there is ofen a reason why some things are more popular, and it is often because they are better designs, and the focus and attention has been on refining that design. Notice that when Fender strayed from its original designs such as in the CBS era that they went into decades long decline.
I drive a Toyota. It is a great car and my second one. My first lasted 200,000 miles with no issues. Before that I had Hondas, also no problems.
My family members against my recommendations bought all sorts of cars made by Ford, GM, Jeep, Volvo, Chrysler, etc. They all have had problems I never had with my Hondas and Toyotas. They had parts issues, what I often saw as scheduled obsolescence. Imagine a $1,000 headlamp on a Cadillac....
There are different goals when people design things. Sometimes it is not to create a great product that is well made. Sometimes it is to sell you parts and get you to return to their service department.
One approach lures those who want to get something and be done with it, the other lures those that want to be different in some way even if it may not be a better idea.
And there are costs associated with going with the new approach. Look at the fate of Delorean Motors or Saturn Motor Co.
It shouldn't take long to understand that there may be other reasons than people being slavish.
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Fair enough - if we were all the same life would be boring.
I think the Fender / CBS issue was one of a severe decline in quality, If so, very understandable. Once a good reputation is lost its very hard to get back.
Gibsons quality has been up and down throughout - there are lots of questions on the Les Paul forum over which year LP to buy for the better quality guitars.
Gibson in particular are entrenched in nostalgia and held back by it. Outcry from the 'faithful' whenever anything is changed, even for the better from a form and function perspective. The 2015 guitars had the Gibson fan base in palpitations......
I think the Fender / CBS issue was one of a severe decline in quality, If so, very understandable. Once a good reputation is lost its very hard to get back.
Gibsons quality has been up and down throughout - there are lots of questions on the Les Paul forum over which year LP to buy for the better quality guitars.
Gibson in particular are entrenched in nostalgia and held back by it. Outcry from the 'faithful' whenever anything is changed, even for the better from a form and function perspective. The 2015 guitars had the Gibson fan base in palpitations......
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Looks like you added to your message.
Basically what you are saying is why Tokai launched its Fender and Gibson copy lines in 1977/78, because those companies lost their way.
Tokai went back to the basics and reintroduced people to the icons those companies had once produced.
Then ironically Tokai lost its way when it ventured into all these other product lines like the Talbo.
There are reasons for this. Lawsuits, competition and trying to create new markets.
In the mix there were all sorts of interesting guitars made that most collectors overlook. Like Talbos and even Goldstars.
I think some of the Custom Edition guitars look amazing.
So I hear you, just want to recognize that there may be other viewpoints and it’s not as simple as people being brainwashed or having a herd mentality.
Basically what you are saying is why Tokai launched its Fender and Gibson copy lines in 1977/78, because those companies lost their way.
Tokai went back to the basics and reintroduced people to the icons those companies had once produced.
Then ironically Tokai lost its way when it ventured into all these other product lines like the Talbo.
There are reasons for this. Lawsuits, competition and trying to create new markets.
In the mix there were all sorts of interesting guitars made that most collectors overlook. Like Talbos and even Goldstars.
I think some of the Custom Edition guitars look amazing.
So I hear you, just want to recognize that there may be other viewpoints and it’s not as simple as people being brainwashed or having a herd mentality.
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The other thing that’s happening here with companies like Fender and Gibson is that they are publicly traded companies. And what that means is they have to attract investors. And what that means is that they have to show growth. So if you’re making the same product, even if it’s an amazing product, it’s not as attractive to investors because it’s typically not a growing market. That’s not the same thing as being good in my opinion.
Rodi
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Lol, Vanilla no 1 ice cream flavor by far the chocolate.
Before getting into the classic vs nouvelle designs, I dont have a problem with new, updated design types. Look at my avatar, it's a Shishkov, and while it's classic, it's not a slave. Same with my jr by him, it's a jr, but it's not a replica, it's his own work within the context of wood n wires.
Gibson had the original Talbo design in the 50's along with a bunch of other non selling styles. Vs, Firebird, Exploreres and this Talbo design was never made.
You bring up cars, and that's a great analogy, except cars, even though more and more similar as time passes, have become more reliable and less expensive. My 2014 Honda Civic SI handles amazingly well, is a commuter perfecto car and reliable. Brakes changed once with 97,500 miles, maybe with reg maintenance and tires spending around 1K a year, which is $3.00 a day plus gas. That is reliable!
A guitar is a luxury item at the level of Tokai and therefore prone to more fickle consumers. I like em cause they are great and reasonable. I see Luis's Joe Walsh Model for $2,500.00 and I say, that's reasonable considering the workmanship, design and compared to Les Pauls from Gibson, a great deal.
I don't like Parker Flys either, who wants that look? Not me. Same with the Talbo, it's just not my cup o joe and I don't think better marketing would get mind or market share. The Flying V and Explorers would not be here if it were not for Cheap Trick, Hamer, Gruhns... no one liked em!! Now they are royalty. I always love those style guitars, they speak to me, big space aged defenders of the galaxy!!! The Talbo looks to be a pond lilly, maybe good for someone more Feminine than me but not my taste.
Rodi
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NO both are privately held companies.
CBS Corporation - Wikipedia
CBS is public
Not sure about the Ecuadorian group that bought Gibson.
Regardless of if the corporation was public or private it’s the same point. The focus is on market growth. Not quality.
All corporations sell shares. Public or private. Investors demand growth and profit or they go elsewhere to invest.
Not hard to figure out.
CBS is public
Not sure about the Ecuadorian group that bought Gibson.
Regardless of if the corporation was public or private it’s the same point. The focus is on market growth. Not quality.
All corporations sell shares. Public or private. Investors demand growth and profit or they go elsewhere to invest.
Not hard to figure out.
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I was talking about the changes that happened at Fender in the 70s when Tokai started making Fender clones.
It is pretty indisputable that the CBS ownership is what took Fender in a new direction and in my opinion drove the brand into the ground.
As for Gibson, selling the company to a private equity firm ( " In November 2018, the company was acquired by a group of investors led by private equity firm Kohlberg Kravis Roberts." per Wikipedia) or whatever is the same thing to me as trading it on the market. These are investors looking for something in their portfolio that will show growth. Once it doesn't they either use the losses to offset profits in other areas or they sell it.
The bottom line is that making guitars for these folks is not at all what Leo or Orville or even Mr McCarty were doing. It is a different ball game when a guitar company shares a portfolio with energy companies, or hedge funds.
I think the horse is dead....
It is pretty indisputable that the CBS ownership is what took Fender in a new direction and in my opinion drove the brand into the ground.
As for Gibson, selling the company to a private equity firm ( " In November 2018, the company was acquired by a group of investors led by private equity firm Kohlberg Kravis Roberts." per Wikipedia) or whatever is the same thing to me as trading it on the market. These are investors looking for something in their portfolio that will show growth. Once it doesn't they either use the losses to offset profits in other areas or they sell it.
The bottom line is that making guitars for these folks is not at all what Leo or Orville or even Mr McCarty were doing. It is a different ball game when a guitar company shares a portfolio with energy companies, or hedge funds.
I think the horse is dead....
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bluejeannot
Well-known member
The Gibson Theodore .Gibson's Talbo Woody ? and Tokai's inspiration? I own a Talbo Woody,great guitar ,basically a semi acoustic Strat.
Feminine Pond Lily? Really? lol. I saw a Gibson Theodore advertised this week and had no previous knowledge of it. New Custom Shop Archive Series - £3500, reduced from £4400 (not surprised) and it would have to be much cheaper for me to even consider it, like - free. Looks much more like a Tulip than the Talbo and the hockey stick headstock is a definite turn off. Why this is a re-release is beyond me.
I was almost tempted by a Talbo Woody but no - it had to be the alloy body, just because....
Looking at cars again - we still see the 1950's cars running around restored as, even though they may not have been totally reliable, they are easy to rebuild/repair, with spare parts available. Try rebuilding a rotten Toyota in 67 years.
Not that I don't like the reliability of modern cars - I have a 12 year old Nissan NV200 which has had barely any problems or spare parts needed.
