My new ST-100

[Sigmania]

Note that with no neck codes that points to a switch made at the factory in my opinion. I only recently discovered they did some repairs.

Did you get your guitar in Japan?

 

[Sigmania]

The fretboard stamp indicates that it’s likely a little older than the ST80s with the rosewood Vs. Very mysterious.

 

[Sigmania]

And the neck on my '81 ST80R is also different because there is no skunk stripe.

Not sure how long they were making that neck (rosewood veneer V)? Looks like it may have begun in early '80???

It's a mystery.

Here is your '80 ST100:

And my '81 ST80R:

Your '80 ST100 (skunk stripe)

And my '81 ST80 (no skunk stripe)

 

[Sigmania]

Also wondering if the model number in the neck pocket would have had an R after "ST100" ? Not sure. Maybe someone else can corroborate?

 

[mdvineng]

Prior 1980 upto early 1980, necks were made to std spec, so they all had skunks and those wood veneers applied if jot a Maple neck. Side markers would be in the maple and 81 up they would along the joint of the maple and rosewood.

 

[Sigmania]

Here is my '81. Markers are in the maple.

But these were odd necks, rosewood on a "V".

 

[mdvineng]

A 54 style neck then?

 

[Sigmania]

A 54 style neck then?

There were no rosewood fret boards on Fenders in 1954.... That's the point.

It's a neck that never existed historically.

See the above notes including the quoted message from Peter Mac.

 

[siamackz]

Note that with no neck codes that points to a switch made at the factory in my opinion. I only recently discovered they did some repairs.

Did you get your guitar in Japan?

Interesting. I got mine from an Australian seller.

Let me take a black light to the neck heel and see if there are any remnants of stamping

 

[Peter Mac]

Hi Guys,

I would like to add some extra info to this thread...
Throughout the 1980 Model Year run [ October 1979 - September 1980 ] there were 2 distinct styles of guitar made in regards to features.
The first style are essentially SN 00001xx until 0009960. These all had stamped fingerboards with rosewood boards having skunk stripes and teardrops. Body and neck base were also stamped with a Production Code, with ST-80 and ST-100 having an additional 'A' added to both codes. All had Allen key truss rod adjusters and had black position markers on the maple part of the neck as the rosewood veneer was added to a pre-made maple 1 piece neck .NOTE: Without this addition 'A", the part could easily be ST-60. Looking at these Production Codes, it would indicate that this first style were made through to December 1979. [ Don't quote me on this as it is a loose observation only]

The second style starts at SN 0010000 and most of the high-end Love Rocks occupy the first 100 serial numbers. For Springys, the skunk stripe and teardrop stop as they now route before applying the rosewood board but the black markers remain until MY1981. Truss rod is still Allen Key and Production stamping on body and neck base continue but fingerboard stamping is not. Scratchplates for Rosewood neck guitars goes from single-ply 8 screw 50s type to the more accurate 3-ply 11 screw 60s type. Interestingly all 1977, 1978 and 1979 Springys all had 1-ply 8 screw plates regardless of neck type.

The neck plate is still the same size and hole pattern as the one introduced in early 1978 and will be changed in MY1981 to the Fender-compatable size and the Philips truss rod adjuster begins at that time.
The flaw with all this is the ability to change Neck plates between 1978 to 1980 guitars. I have seen quite a few guitars with mismatching specs or number sequencing which I can only attribute to changing of Neck plates. It doesn't make the guitar any less original - it just makes it harder to follow production patterns.
Remember that ST-80 and ST-100 are fundamentally the same guitar - the only difference is the Gold hardware vs Nickel hardware. When all the costs for the guitar parts are broken down, that extra 20,000yen was the difference between the tuners, bridge, saddles, neck plate and jack plate being gold plated. I have seen ST-100s with 1 piece and 2 piece bodies, as well as some ST-80s. It depended on the builder on the day although I have seen some 2 piece bodies joined so precisely as to appear as a 1 piece. especially with quarter-sawn Sen.
Hope you found this helpful
regards
Peter Mac

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks Peter,

What are your thoughts about this specific ST100 that does not have a flamed maple neck, but a V with a rosewood board like the ST80s in '80/81?

Is this possibly the earliest Tokai rosewood board on a V neck out there? 8)

And no codes on the neck at all. Just the "100" fret board stamp. No 1=4, no "A" or anything.

Seems odd.

BTW siamackz, these are highly sought after necks in the Strat world. Just google rosewood v neck. :wink:

 

[siamackz]

Ok I am super embarrassed to say that once again my observation skills have been disappointing I was so weary of disassembling the guitar just after it arrived fully set up that I didn’t spend enough time looking at the neck - I looked at the back but not where the Allen key is. Anyway, I opened the guitar up today and looked more carefully and there it was - a stamp, see pic below.
Considering this, it seems (a) the serial number and neck fits all description of the early 1980 neck as explained by Peter (b) it seems the neck and body are not a perfect match in the sense that the codes don’t match, though the neck is a ST100 from what Peter said, with the “A” stamp.

Ami correct? Again, I’m sorry about the inaccurate info I provided saying there are no neck stamps.

also I am so grateful for the insights that Sigmania and Peter have provided. Thank so much!

 

[Sigmania]

Wow. Ok. So the codes don’t match

My understanding of these codes is that what this means is a different neck was likely matched to this body and a different body to that neck.

Again, Peter or someone else may weigh in with new and different insights.

The mystery continues.

 

[siamackz]

Wow. Ok. So the codes don’t match

My understanding of these codes is that what this means is a different neck was likely matched to this body and a different body to that neck.

Again, Peter or someone else may weigh in with new and different insights.

The mystery continues.

This is what I understand too. It seems the neck was a March production and the body a Jan construction, both 1980. So, it’s possible that - as you suggested, Sigmania - the neck might have been damaged and then replaced in 3 months. Or maybe the owner realized that a rosewood V was better than the maple that came with the guitar initially, lol.

1. It still doesn’t explain why the ST-100 replacement neck was not flamed. Were only maple fretboard necks flamed?
2. Also, do your rosewood guitars have an “R” in the body cavity next to the colour? For example mine says “GS” but based on catalogues it is a “GSR”. Should the body cavity say GSR?

 

[Sigmania]

The codes don’t seem to be date codes. We still don’t know exactly what they mean other than being some sort of matching system.

 

[Sigmania]

It seems the neck was a March production and the body a Jan construction, both 1980.

And I would have to check on the R question later. Maybe someone else will know.

I would question this assumption. There is no consensus about what the body & neck codes (3=9, 1=4) mean other than some sort of matching system.

 

[felixcatus]

Ok I am super embarrassed to say that once again my observation skills have been disappointing I was so weary of disassembling the guitar just after it arrived fully set up that I didn’t spend enough time looking at the neck - I looked at the back but not where the Allen key is. Anyway, I opened the guitar up today and looked more carefully and there it was - a stamp, see pic below.
Considering this, it seems (a) the serial number and neck fits all description of the early 1980 neck as explained by Peter (b) it seems the neck and body are not a perfect match in the sense that the codes don’t match, though the neck is a ST100 from what Peter said, with the “A” stamp.

Ami correct? Again, I’m sorry about the inaccurate info I provided saying there are no neck stamps.

also I am so grateful for the insights that Sigmania and Peter have provided. Thank so much!

Codes don't have to match on Tokais for it to be a factory original.

 

[ATO]

Has anyone seen a first number over 12? I know the 2nd numbers have been seen way above 31.

 

[felixcatus]

Has anyone seen a first number over 12? I know the 2nd numbers have been seen way above 31.

Probably not, because I'm told it's 'month (1st number) and batch (2nd number)' ?

 

[Sigmania]

One example I found a while back. (7=32)

So I don't know about the first digit, but the second one obviously does not refer to days of the month.

I have to think this is some sort of system for:
-tracking runs/batches, or
-matching bodies to necks re: final fitting, or
-relative to setting up the CNC machines, or
-runs relative to a new setup/blade change, etc.


Someone on here that works in industrial engineering may have a better idea.