Manufactured Under License For... Fakais

[Sigmania]

Given all of that, it takes a lot of nerve to put this label on a guitar. :evil:

 

[Sigmania]

And it wasn't just a Les Paul. So far I have documented an ES model, a PRS clone, and that weird pointy abalone-laden LP I just posted all with that sketchy label.

How could someone do that and think it wouldn't be noticed? Lends some credence to the idea of miscommunication.

Would be nice to have the facts, but like so many things that probably won't happen.

 

[mdvineng]

If you're having none kosher stuff made, then you are also avoiding licence fees to Tokai. No wonder it all kicked off!

 

[Sigmania]

Obviously they were cashing in on the brand reputation Tokai had built.

Otherwise, they would have put their own, or any other, name on the head stocks.

 

[mdvineng]

Obviously they were cashing in on the brand reputation Tokai had built.

Otherwise, they would have put their own, or any other, name on the head stocks.

Exactly and never the best way to endear yourself to the originator and holder of your business agreement.

 

[Sigmania]

Interesting thread here from 2009:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13810

Hey Mick,
How are you so sure that the fake Tokai's were made in the same factory as the Canadian Dillions? I really am trying to research this

There are Tokai "fakes" coming from at least 2 factories, the reason for this is that there are certain differences between the fakes we {myself and Ozeshin} are researching for our website. There are some Tokai Fakes that have the Dillion headstock exactly so i would assume that these came from the same factory as the Korean Dillions. Oze and I have been looking into this for at least 2 years and i had a fellow member from Canada do a bit of sniffing around for us and he came up with some good info, i also liaise with Tokai Japan as well, i have confirmation emails from Tokai about the status of these guitars. Some of the Tokai fakes also came from the factory Tokai was using to make its Korean models this was stopped by Mr Adachi the Tokai President after talking with the manufacturer at a trade show. The Canadian fake Tokai's used different materials to the "normal" Tokai Korean models like Mahogany backs for example, The official Korean Tokai's were mainly Alder backed.
Unless you actually talked to the distributor in Canada and asked how many guitars he sanctioned no one will ever know. On a recent search of Canadian music shops i found at least 5 shops still selling these Fakes as the "real thing", there could well be more than one person in Canada ordering these guitars because of different specs in the same model guitars, like control placement, type of bridge, headstock shape and so on. As far as the Dillion guitars are concerned, i thought Dillion guitars were around well before Canada got involved, i will check into that one.

Mick

 

[mdvineng]

That thread makes much more sense.

 

[Sigmania]

Not sure if the web site on the Fake Tokais that Ozeshin and leadguitar_323 were working on ever happened? Anyone have a link?

 

[mdvineng]

Way too many results pop up but this was interesting. A Tokai ninja bass. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/bought-a-fake-tokai-help-appreciated.1488214/page-3 pictures are on page one

 

[Sigmania]

This whole issue of a distributor "going rogue" reminds me of the Tokai distributor in Texas, Tony Dukes at IMC, that ran afoul of SRV.

R.I.P.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26098&p=195548&hilit=srv#p195548

Must have given Mr Adachi fits. Hope he’s enjoying retirement.

 

[Sigmania]

Looks like there are to this day Dillion guitars made in the US?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-made-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

[Sigmania]

Another Fakai...

Tokai SG Style Electric Guitar | Reverb

 

[Sigmania]

Just creating a thread to house all of these to try and get a handle on the scope of this situation.

These guitars were apparently ordered from a factory in Korea without authorization by Tokai, even though they bear the Tokai name on the headstock.

From 2005:

Awesome! What's the deal with these supposed 'fake' Korean/Canadian Tokais? Which models are these and when were they sold?

Like Mr. Adachi mentioned their Korean partner produced Love Rocks with other specs (i.e. with mahogany bodies) for the Canadian Tokai distributor without his permission, and that's why there will be a new Canadian distributor soon.

https://www.tokaiforum.com/threads/q-as-with-mr-shohei-adachi-president-of-tokai-gakki.4434/



These guitars bore a sticker on the back of the headstock, between the tuners with the bold proclamation of

"Manufactured under licence for Tokai Gakki Co. Lid*

Followed by the telling grammatical error

"Make In Korea" and a serial #

Will be interesting to see how many of these are out there, what models, and what part of the world they ended up in.

Headstock logo has a closed "a" in Tokai and the "k" is very pronounced, not like an "h".

Looks like the format of the serial number changes from 2003 to 2004.

2003 looks like year and unit count.

2004 looks like year, month, unit count.

So:

03#####
04MM###

 

[Sigmania]

Models seen so far:


LS goldtop humbuckers
LS goldtop, P90s
LC sunburst flametop
PRS clones
PRS single sharp cutaway

 

[Sigmania]

2008:

Tokai in Canada has always been a contentious issue, especially with respect to the origins of the pieces.

When the authenticity of these pieces has been challenged, there has been no proof offered to confirm that these pieces came through Tokai Gakki. A similar situation, although they are distrubuted under the Eastwood brand, applies with the Hummingbird. People can chose to believe it is a Tokai. These are not Tokai in the true sense of the word.

I do not recall putting "sh1t" on a guitar owned by anyone, just calling a spade a spade. Also, Mick, I do not recall questioning the legitimacy of the neo-select pieces, in the past. Perhaps there is some confusion here, or, are you a little miffed that I know that Tokai were not putting ill fitting "Les Paul" logo's on 1981 LC's (there are some laws that Tokai Gakki must abide by) and having a second hand dealer try and flog it as original. If that is the case, please hold the " narrow minded" for someone else, OK?

We all know that Tokai Gakki will make custom production runs, from time to time, no news here. They may be custom order by a customer, or, as a result in the timbers being used not fitting in with the existing Tokai Catalogue. That any "non production run" model is seen as a fake, by me or others (togps, in this case), is ridiculous. Where models that are unusual and one-off have cropped up around here, I have seen requests for more info on the piece, in particular, but no specific denials that they are, in fact Tokai Gakki guitars.

When I see some actual proof that these guitars sold in Canada are Tokai Gakki, then my stance will change and apologies will be offered to all that I have offended by calling Fakai.

First step would be to check some of the mirky mush and sidestepping used when these pieces have been challenged. There is no evidence that these are Tokai Gakki.

The second step would be to ask your contact about the legitimacy of these pieces.

Lets keep things warm and cozy, in this small club of Tokai owners. We can agree to disagree, I'm cool with that. However, leave out the personal slights, however oblique you like to cast them.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10089&p=63769#p63769

Hi all, Well, I also received that exact story today, this time from japan.

Quote...... mick this is the reply from tokai today..................a shocking truth here............................

it says............................................

WE STOPPED DEALING WITH ACTIVE MUSICAL PRODUCTS LTD BECAUSE THEY MADE TOKAI GUITARS
IN KOREA WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION...............................................................................................

So thats it, active musical products were the Tokai distributor but it looks like they did a deal with the factory
in korea that was making the "korean models" and decided they wanted different materials and models and
went ahead and ordered them without knowledge of the Tokai company, so in a way they are fakes and in
a way they are not. They still would be reasonably good guitars seeing as they came out of the same factory.
I think they have a mahogany body and maple neck. I would call them "unautherised Tokai's" Maybe?

Interesting i suppose, and i'm glad i have finally found out what went on with these guitars.
My sources in japan are ultra reliable , i have quite a few good contacts in japan {hence all of my guitars !!} so i think i can finally put
this episode to bed.
So yes Togps you were right i suppose but what i was after is why you called these "fakes" not once did you offer evidence so i was on a mission to find out exactly what went on. I never questioned your credibility, just the lack of evidence, it was solid proof i was after and finally i have it.
As far as JSD and the other shops that sold these they weren't to know. The Canadian distributor is very hard to get in contact with has no website and no email, but after some good detective work by a few interested forum members we can finally lay the Canadian Tokai story to bed.

Cheers all
Mick

Cheers Mick

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10228&p=65271#p65271


Interesting thread here from 2009:

Hey Mick,
How are you so sure that the fake Tokai's were made in the same factory as the Canadian Dillions? I really am trying to research this

There are Tokai "fakes" coming from at least 2 factories, the reason for this is that there are certain differences between the fakes we {myself and Ozeshin} are researching for our website. There are some Tokai Fakes that have the Dillion headstock exactly so i would assume that these came from the same factory as the Korean Dillions. Oze and I have been looking into this for at least 2 years and i had a fellow member from Canada do a bit of sniffing around for us and he came up with some good info, i also liaise with Tokai Japan as well, i have confirmation emails from Tokai about the status of these guitars. Some of the Tokai fakes also came from the factory Tokai was using to make its Korean models this was stopped by Mr Adachi the Tokai President after talking with the manufacturer at a trade show. The Canadian fake Tokai's used different materials to the "normal" Tokai Korean models like Mahogany backs for example, The official Korean Tokai's were mainly Alder backed.
Unless you actually talked to the distributor in Canada and asked how many guitars he sanctioned no one will ever know. On a recent search of Canadian music shops i found at least 5 shops still selling these Fakes as the "real thing", there could well be more than one person in Canada ordering these guitars because of different specs in the same model guitars, like control placement, type of bridge, headstock shape and so on. As far as the Dillion guitars are concerned, i thought Dillion guitars were around well before Canada got involved, i will check into that one.

Mick

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13810


I found posts from 2011 by a member calling himself space_114 that seemed to perfectly sum up the sentiment that drove at least one dealer to engage in such a practice.

Big Mike hit the nail on the head !! Although a Faki - it was built direct for the Canadian market in the same factory as the genuine mik Tokai just to better spec's and with Canadian wood not the crap wood Tokai was using on their MIK versions and 1/4 sawn hard rock maple necks .. .. Overall a much better axe than what you would have paid for if you received a genuine MIK tokai - ( in the world of fakes this usally never happens except for the Canadain Fakai's) Look around this site and you will quickly realize that these guitars are really nice - Who cares what Mr X says at Tokai. The reality was he took too long to supply the Canadian market so the distributor went direct to the factory and had them made BETTER !. The MIK Tokai's other than the name aren't really Tokai's either ... The Tokai MIK Mfg plant wasn't theirs anyway .. Don't feel burned ... you have a really nice guitar.. :wink:

Followed by this from member Diamond, a Tokai distributor at the time I believe:

What a bizarre post.

So what you're saying is...
If a distributor in country X decides he's waiting too long for his order of genuine Tokais to be manufactured, he should just get factory X to make him unauthorized "Tokais" without the knowledge & permission of Mr X at Tokai Japan?

Is that what you're saying?

Don't you think the Canadian distributor should have put his own name on the headstock of the guitars he had made?...he could have named the guitars, "Ganif".

And...

Is that what you're saying?

Bizarre not really happens all the time in business, YES that's how it went down ..Why would the Cdn Dist "Mel" was his name change the name ? He had the rights to the Tokai name and a distribution network and demand - obviously if he changed the name this would deter his sales. By the way Tokai Factory X keep in mind was not a real Tokai factory and were making guitars under several brands including Tokai and also making hardware and supplying to "many" known brands. Like most asian companies they will take your money and put their own mom's names on them as long as you are willing to pay. This is only one reason Tokai figured out the subbing your Mfg to a second party sometimes is not the greatest idea long term - Ultimately this partership makes you as in this case, loose control of your brand & product integrity - Happens all the time in business (espically with asian companies even the big ones). In this (rare) circumstance the product was better than what Tokai had spec'd to be made from this same mfg plant destined to bear the true Tokai name. The reality is Tokai snoozed and they loosed and thus the reason why although they admit to never making a Zakk Wylde / Eddie Van Halen copy (Id love to have one if i could find one) and fast to call the unauthorized Canadian models Fakias state very little of what the circumstance was at the time during 2004-2006 that led to this circumstance here in Canada. It's not like Canada is known as the Mecca of copy infringment when it comes to anything... Just a business gap that led a little guy to make some decent $$$ of the back of another while still managing to provide a excellent quality product as for the ethic's that's another story ..lets just say nothing Asain companies don't do everyday :lol: My only motive posting this regardles of anyone's opinion is to simply state the correct information for anyone that may have one of these Canadian Fakai's and feel that they have a less thn quality product regardless of the stupid name on the headstock . I never call them "real" Tokai's as they were made without the permission of Tokai (I call them sort of Tokai's) The issue to date with the MIK Tokai's is you can have a Real authorized MIK Tokai or an unauthorized Canadian MIK Tokai and the mostly found in the U.K real crap made in China copy Tokai's .. The info is here to educate one to identify one from the other...

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17064&start=15

In a different thread in 2011:

these unauthorized Tokai guitars made in the same factory in Korea as the Tokai's were made are far superior to the models Tokai had made there at that time

BS.

BS.

As I've said on other posts, I've visited a shop close to my house here in Korea and the owner said he used to have the contract for Tokai in Korea. He said he's been to their Japan factory a few times, yadda yadda. I know for certain he has commissioned other guitars made at the same factry that were long after Tokai moved out of Korea as I've seen them in his shop and he's showed me some in the box. Whether the bullseye and other Canadian Fakais were done in the same manner is anyone's guess. But I do know that the factory that made Tokai in Korea continued to make them for the asking, long after Tokai pulled out and moved to China.

Jason

Looking at the situation from the position of the marketing department at the Japanese factory in Hamamatsu, which would be hypothetical, because there is no marketing department, once production of Tokai guitars was started outside Japan, the problems started.

Take the motto, "Quality before Quantity". Let me tell you for a fact that if you visit one of the Chinese factories that are making Tokais, and in particular the modified headstock UK models, you may spot some overproduction sitting around. If you ask about them with an interest in buying them........no problem, how many would you like sir?

Supply with the previous factory was always a problem, which was OK as long as you believed that "Quality before Quantity" was the reason for this.

Rather than keep the market supply slightly short, and therefore retain some of the mystique and exclusivity that the Tokai name had earned over time, the modified headstock models were commissioned to be made in another factory, outside Tokai Japans direct control.

The result, more guitars, at a cheaper buying price than the guitars that were ordered by Tokai Gakki. Of course, the distributor pays Tokai Gakki a royalty for using the Tokai logo.

The end result is cheaper guitars for that particular market. Also, the leakage of the same product through domestic Chinese buyers is a problem. These end up all over the world and are being sold as you read this as legitimate Tokais, under the mistaken belief that they are being sold through the Tokai network, which they are not.

The non exististant marketing department are not concerned about other markets and their distributors, including their own Japanese domestic market, it would seem.

Supply of Japanese made Tokais has always been at a premium and I remain steadfast on backing up the quality of the guitars that I have seen. Although the guitar that warxy recently bought needed a fret level and crown, straight out of the box. I have never seen this before and may be, along with the reported inlay issues, be a sign of things to come.

"Quality before Quantity" Simple and to the point. It means what it says.

Or, maybe it did. I know for a fact that Tokai are desperate to sell more guitars at the moment, particularly after having lost the Fender Japan contract. Yes, they build some Schecters, and some other niche brands but they are all small fry products compared to Fender.

Unfortunately, I am seeing that Tokai may face some humiliation in the not too distant future. The only difference being rather than making replicas of American guitars and clearly branding them Tokai, it will be their own brand name that brings them into question in the marketplace.

The marketing department would understand, only if it cared to take its eyes off the royalty cheques.

How, or indeed if, Tokai adress the problem remains to be seen.

Time will tell, and I will be watching.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10089&p=140945#p140945

 

[Sigmania]

https://reverb.com/item/216737-tokai-prs-style-orange-tan-flamed

 

[Sigmania]

https://reverb.com/item/1759454-prs-mccarty-copy-tokai-nlp40

 

[Sigmania]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tokai-Ele...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

[Sigmania]

https://www.gbase.com/gear/tokai-love-rock-2004-gold-top

 

[Sigmania]

Fakai "Make In Korea". Closed "a". Pronounced "k". (top)
Tohai, "k" like an "h", weird "o", 6 digit unknown origin, SN 081168 (middle)
Tokai, 1981 LS100S MIJ (botttom)

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26749

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26241