First post, looking for some information on what I believe is a 1974 tokai?

[TokaiCowboy]

Howdy, I bought this yesterday and was wondering if anybody had a little more information on it. Seems to be the same model as the Ampeg Stud ge 100 or the Sigma/Martin SGB2 but I've only seen one that has tokai on the headstock. The logo seems consistent with the 70s logo, and I believe the neck pickup can be traced back to 1974 based on what I've read. If anyone knows any part of this story I would love to hear it, from what I've gathered they were likely putting together guitars for ampeg between 71-73, and then switched over to martin/sigma in 74 for a single batch of 250 guitars. I would assume that this is after that, following gibson's lawsuit of Martin/Sigma? I've attached the only other trace of something like this that I've found online below.


https://best-vintage-guitars.de/tokai_sg_1974.html

 

[Sigmania]

Amazing.... When I first saw it I thought it was a Sigma with the German carve on the body.

This guitar is part of a larger story about what Tokai was doing before they started using CNC to copy Fenders in 1977.

That logo was initially designed in 1970 for guitars exported to the U.S. It re-surfaced as the "new" logo in 1983, but its origins are from 1970.

These guitars are hard to date. I am starting to try to untangle the Sigma stuff which is a mess. Martin had multiple companies building their guitars in Japan, and as you suggested some may have been farmed out. I found one model that was made in Korea for Tokai as early as 1970/71 or so.

If you can, please post as many pictures as you can, especially if you do a string change and look under the pickups. Might be some clues there.

Congrats on a neat piece of history.

 

[Sigmania]

By the way, it is really hard to tell from the pics, but is that a factory paint job? I thought it was something an owner did, but noticed the logo seems to be on top ouf it and similar deal with the text on the truss rod cover. Wild.

 

[Sigmania]

I would be curious to know if there is a serial number anywhere on it.

May even be stamped in one of the pickup compartments of on the heel of the neck or neck pocket.

 

[Sigmania]

Woops.... I am realizing I was seeing a reflection and thought it was some sort of camo or faux wood grain.

It's gloss black right?

My bad.

 

[Sigmania]

Btw, related thread here:

Early Black Widow Tokai Electric Guitar

 

[TokaiCowboy]

Thank you so much for the response! is the Korean model that you mention acoustic? I looked through some of your posts on the sigma acoustic guitars and they're so gorgeous. I have it in the shop right now getting an estimation for repairing the busted binding on the neck, as soon as its ready I'll get some nice photos of it! I believe that it is a factory paint job, I think that the truss rod cover is the exact same as the ampeg ge-100 and I believe they had a black option they called "ebony" or something.
I may be wrong about the paint job though and that may not be the original cover, it was given to the previous owner without much information apparently and he's just had it in its case for years. He said he couldn't find a serial number but that if there was one it would likely be hand written. One of the screws in the plate cover is stuck in there but I'm hoping its somewhere up there? I checked the back panel but didn't see anything.
The neck is a good idea, when i get it back and get those strings off I'll take a gander and also try to see about the pickups.

On a side note, I've been trying to read up on your posts regarding Sigma and find them incredibly fascinating! The neck plate on this one says "made in japan" for what its worth but its hard to make out in that image

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks.

Yeah, I screwed up re: the paint job. The reflection from what must be fluorescent tube lights makes it look like there is some sort of camo paint job. I realized it is actually black and must have a pretty high gloss.

And good to know that it was made in Japan and is not Korean.

Very very similar to Sigmas like this one:

Martin / Sigma SG SBG2 Electric Guitar

 

[Sigmania]

Are you in Texas? I tried to track down that guitar and looks like it was in Texas?

I am asking because there is a Texas Tokai connection through IMC in Fort Worth.

 

[TokaiCowboy]

Yeah it looks almost identical to that sigma! Also very similar to the black widow in that other thread that you linked. The truss rod cover and headstock are the only main difference I could tell between the two. Do you know what the nut is made of on this era of guitars by chance? I think I may need a replacement as the low E was coming off when I tightened it and I figure that snapping may have been what damaged the binding on the neck.

I am in Texas! The guy who sold it to me is from Texas but seems to do a lot of traveling. What is IMC in Fort Worth ?

 

[Sigmania]

IMC is/was International Music Corporation. Long story, but the company was involved in importing musical instruments from abroad. The big expansion in the early 70s was coming out of Japan and then that shifted a good bit to Korea due to international monetary policies. As in Texas, there were some colorful characters that worked for them. One got cross wise with SRV and created a mess in the mid 80s.

Stevie Ray Vaughan, Tony Dukes & Tokai

 

[TokaiCowboy]

IMC is/was International Music Corporation. Long story, but the company was involved in importing musical instruments from abroad. The big expansion in the early 70s was coming out of Japan and then that shifted a good bit to Korea due to international monetary policies. As in Texas, there were some colorful characters that worked for them. One got cross wise with SRV and created a mess in the mid 80s.

Stevie Ray Vaughan, Tony Dukes & Tokai

oh wow, that's wild! I appreciate the information, I'm absolutely fascinated by the history surrounding this

 

[Sigmania]

I just saw this:

"The Big Stud retailed for about $350, rather a lot for a plywood bass...it was made by Tokai (Kasuga International) and was also marketed by Martin as the Sigma SBB2-8 and by Gretsch under the Dorado brand."

That points directly to IMC.

 

[Sigmania]

I just spotted this from the Sigma Guitars Wikipedia page referring to 52S, e.g., 52SDM-5, 52SDR-7 and 52SGCS-7 acoustics:

"Current documentation (taken from the files at Martin) indicates these models were produced by the Kasuga Gakki company as overload for the Tokai Gakki company."

 

[Sigmania]

So that is a nexus of Big Stud, Kasuga, Sigma & Tokai.

The manufacturer of your guitar may be Kasuga Gakki or it may be Tokai Gakki. The lines are very blurred.

At this early time (pre-1977), I am not aware of signature construction features of Tokai built guitars, though there surely are some. Just haven't spotted them yet.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

Let's see...

Here's a (assumed to be contemporary) Gibby control cover for comparison:


Gibson

Here's what may be a Fujigen Ibby:


Ibanez

Let's look at that other little shed in Matsumoto:


Aria (pre-Pro II) SG (Matsumoku)

Now here's a Kasuga (assumed to be first half of the 70s):


Kasuga

A Heerby (Kasuga brand) from the late 70s:


Heerby

A Kasuga-made Navigator:


Navigator

That is strangely consistent for the suspected span of years they made 'em that way.

Here's the Tokai and the Sigma again:



That looks (almost) a little bit like Kasuga but with the plastic cover and cavity router template reversed/mirrored. I'd assume these are both from the same factory but if it's Kasuga, it's not very obvious. It's not Chushin and likely not Terada either.

 

[TokaiCowboy]

Let's see...

Here's a (assumed to be contemporary) Gibby control cover for comparison:

View attachment 83608
Gibson

Here's what may be a Fujigen Ibby:

View attachment 83609
Ibanez

Let's look at that other little shed in Matsumoto:

View attachment 83610
Aria (pre-Pro II) SG (Matsumoku)

Now here's a Kasuga (assumed to be first half of the 70s):

View attachment 83611
Kasuga

A Heerby (Kasuga brand) from the late 70s:

View attachment 83612
Heerby

A Kasuga-made Navigator:

View attachment 83613
Navigator

That is strangely consistent for the suspected span of years they made 'em that way.

Here's the Tokai and the Sigma again:

View attachment 83614View attachment 83615

That looks (almost) a little bit like Kasuga but with the plastic cover and cavity router template reversed/mirrored. I'd assume these are both from the same factory but if it's Kasuga, it's not very obvious. It's not Chushin and likely not Terada either.

WOAH, super cool and detailed response, thank you! I hadn't really thought about comparing backplates but I flipped and reversed that Kasuga image and tried my best to line them up side by side. While they are almost frustratingly similar at this angle I think there are some weird differences.

 

[TokaiCowboy]

also just as a side note, is anyone familiar with the nut material used on guitars of the era? Or familiar with the quality of the "plywood" bodies of the time? The guitar weighs about 8 pounds and sounds pretty great in my opinion.

 

[TokaiCowboy]

https://vintagejapanguitars.com/matsumoku-gakki-en/
Really blurry photo but I also noticed that the bottom left seem to have a resemblance to some guitars mentioned here, that headstock looks similar to a sigma or dorado maybe?

 

[TokaiCowboy]

Also noticed the backplates for the ampeg seem to be different than the Tokai(middle is tokai, left is stud ge-100, right is i believe the ge-500 but may be wrong)