Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

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Sigmania
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Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:00 pm

So I was just playing my 1981 LS100S and the sun was hitting the head stock and I saw that the veneer on the head stock does not line up with the rest of the head stock. :o As though it shrank, or was glued on AFTER the guitar was built?

I found some older threads on this topic and seems Tokai used plastic veneer on models up to LS200 and holly veneer on the LS200 and up?

This first guitar, my 1981 LS100S, looks like it could be plastic veneer that shrunk? I’m not seeing wood grain in the veneer on this guitar at first look.

I'll post a bunch of pictures at different angles.

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Last edited by Sigmania on Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 9 times in total.
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:18 pm

Here is the head stock on my 1982 LS???

Looks like the black is paint over the mahogany neck or stain on a holly wood veneer?

Not sure what this model is? Solid one piece body and solid flame maple top with FEB.

I found an old thread posted below where someone said the LS200 and LS320 had holly veneer.

This looks to me like wood and not plastic. I can see the wood grain through it. It’s either paint on the mahogany or a thin wood veneer.

Head scratcher.

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Last edited by Sigmania on Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:33 pm, edited 15 times in total.
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:21 pm

And my 1979 LS80GT Les Paul Reborn.

Looks really even. No obvious grain. Post below indicates this is probably a black plastic veneer.

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Last edited by Sigmania on Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 am

I found some old threads on this same topic.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... lly#p16702

ian wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:24 am
Yep, what Tops said (& excellent photo too 8)) ? I was fooled by same thing about a year back. It?s absolutely typical not only on Gibson copies but also on Gibson?s themselves, ie the black facia of headstock is a plastic-like plate glued onto the wooden headstock.

On Reborn?s the plastic that Tokai used often shrinks, so on early guitars it?s not uncommon to see it lifting away from the headstock, exactly as you described.

Far from being a fake or a "pup", it?s probably a good sign & confirms the guitar is genuine (nobody would make a fake fitted like that lol!).
Last edited by Sigmania on Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:25 am

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... lly#p10176

supernout wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:45 am
ian wrote:Hi Sneaky,

Thanks for that info. - yeah the rest of the guitar looks fine. Are those headstocks made in two pieces, ie sandwiched together :o ? On my old LS60 it just looks like a 1-piece headstock with the top face dyed back?

Ian.
usually they're made of 1p plus additonal side wings.

gibbos originals, historics, and tokai high ends (old 200, 320) have a aka "holy veneer" black tinted and laquered white wood on top of the headstock. on all other models it's usually black plastik veneer which sometimes tend to shrink a little. wood veneer easily crackles after some 10 to 20 years
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:54 am

To further add to the confusion, I recently sold a 1983 LS80 solid flame top (oval 80 sticker) with a two piece back (another Tokai anomaly for an LS80) that had some damage to the tip of the headstock clearly revealing a wood veneer under a lacquer finish.

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'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

guitar hiro
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by guitar hiro » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:34 pm

I have seen what your observations are; black plastic layer glued onto the head stock face, thin wood veneer face, and just some black paint.

I guess it all depends on the manufacture era & what Tokai was willing to put out the door.

All of my LS 'inkies' have the very thin wood veneer on the head stock face; it can be seen from both sides & the end of the head stock.
It's the same cherry color as the mahogany but just a few shades lighter. It's easy to spot & to photograph.
Imagine that; the lowly Nagano inkies got the real Gibson (head stock) treatment. :lol:

I'm curious now; I will have to dig down to the bottom of the wood pile & see what my 2000 LS-320 has. :)
'holier than thou cuntiness' was originally exported to the entire planet from the land of rocks and trees aka Cadada, and now the entire solar system is infected :lol:

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:31 pm

Yeah. It’s interesting isn’t it?

Thankfully the plastic doesn’t affect the sound. :wink:
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

guitar hiro
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by guitar hiro » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:33 pm

one very interesting attribute difference I have noticed between the regular production LS (Hamamatsu) examples and the 'inkie' (Nagano) production LS examples is the neck thickness. The 'inkies' typically have thicker necks, at least from examples I have had in my hands, and from my experience. :-? What is up wit dat?
'holier than thou cuntiness' was originally exported to the entire planet from the land of rocks and trees aka Cadada, and now the entire solar system is infected :lol:

Sigmania
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Re: Love Rock Headstock Veneer?

Post by Sigmania » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:28 am

All of the Tokais I have had have dated from 1979-1983, so I can’t help. The neck profiles on the ones I have had, STs, TEs, and LSs, have always been comfortable to me so I haven’t paid much attention.

I’m no expert, but I do know that their construction differs in some cases from early Strats, Teles, and Les Pauls, and it’s interesting to me when they are different.

The headstock material on these Love Rocks I posted is an interesting case. I had no idea that plastic was used on some pieces, and was surprised that it would shrink over time.

But again, that LS100S is about the best playing and sounding guitar I’ve ever played or owned. That’s why I said it doesn’t affect the sound, which is the most important thing to me.

But it is interesting. Part of the Tokai story and part of what makes these guitars unique it seems.
'79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 Jazz Sounds, '81 LS100S ON, '81 ST80 Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock (solid maple top)

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