WTB: early TS 80/ similar Springy Sound..

[jumping@shadows]

Hi all, this is my first post here, really cool, informative sight about this seductive guitars.
Ive recently bought a '65 Gibson 330 and am in the process of selling a '66 335 and now am after an early Tokai spaghetti logo strat.
Condition is not so important but the wood must be sound, the neck the V-shape and its must fundamentally be an excellent playing/sounding guitar.
If anyone has something that fits the bill please mail me at [email protected]
Cash waiting..
Cheers all!
Yuuki

 

[Rossi]

Easy PM villager forum member he has 2 ST80s here is his link

http://www.japanguitars.co.uk/page%206%20Tokai.html

 

[Anonymous]

Very nice. Very expensive....


Mike

 

[Rossi]

V neck is a ST80 or higher end model St100/120 (if you can find one) you might be lucky and get a ST80 off e-bay but you take a chance and still pay over ?600
All i can say is good luck :wink:

 

[marcusnieman]

Very nice. Very expensive....


Mike

Yeah, they are......but they're worth it in my opinion. They along with the ST100's are rare on eBay because people tend to keep them and when they do show up, they ain't cheap. Buy one now because they'll only cost you more down the road - it's all relative.

 

[Anonymous]

I know people are going to disagree with me on this, but I can't see how a Springy can be worth ?775. It's easy to get a Fender US 57/62 reissue for less than that on eBay, in fact I got an 88 62RI model a few months ago for only ?550, & it's a brilliant guitar. I'm convinced that good Fenders are going to hold their value more in the long term, and the 80's vintage reissues are going to be the next collectable models, once people realise that most of the 70s Strats were very poor (and ridiculously over-priced right now!), while the early to mid 80s RIs were excellent (I also have an 86, which is better than some early 60s Strats I've tried).

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that a Springy is worth ?225 more than an 88 US Fender RI. I'd like a Springy, but I wouldn't pay that for it. I got my 84 ST55 Goldstar for ?200 recently too. Some people must be putting huge mark-ups on their guitars.

Mike

 

[togps]

.... but I can't see how a Springy can be worth ?775.

Mike, this is very simple:

Thomas told me: Gottfried, frankly, it would be really hard, to find such kind of guitar at Fenders Custom Shop ?

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8522

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, but these matters are never "simple", as you put it. It's all a matter of opinion. If it was simple, we'd all agree that the best guitar is a Strat, or a Tele, or a Les Paul etc. etc. But we don't, we all have differing opinions.

I have a 1999 Custom Shop Strat. Although it has a gorgeous flamed maple neck (shame to cover it with rosewood), in terms of feel, sound, and playability, it's on a level with the 80s RIs I've tried, & the 2 I own. The newer RIs aren't as good (they have a poly undercoat, the older ones are all nitro). In other words, the 80s RIs are comparable to the current CS Time Machine series. That's not a fact, it's my opinion, same as "Springys are as good as CS Strats" is an opinion.

I just can't accept that a Springy is worth more than an 80s US RI. And in terms of value when selling it, there are a lot more people out there who will pay for the Fender name than will pay for the Tokai name.

Don't get me wrong, I've always liked Tokais, my first Strat was an 84 Goldstar. I just think that the prices some people ask, and often get, is over the top at the moment.

Mike

 

[Rossi]

stratman323 Have you played or owned a Springy St80 or higher spec.Ive played just about everything and in the old days i owned a 59 white strat a 63 & 65 and not a RI the reall deal and lately a 73 i didnt think like most people that they would command such a high price for a guitar, that i just used to lean it up here and there and i just sold them all on.Even i dont know why Fenders are fetching the kind of money that they are,are they being played or are the collectors just putting the price up for themselfs,ive played and owned a Springy ST80 with the e-pups and i will tell you all.That it knocked spots of my earlly strats in everyway. feel/sound the whole 9 yards so why should i pay BIG dollar for a Fender when in my opinion a Springy is a much better guitar and i think paying 6/700 is a good deal,and no im not a dealer just a guitar player.So could you please tell me why and whats the very big difference in price between a 59/65 strat and a ST80 from a players point of view.

 

[Anonymous]

I played a Springy a few years ago, but it was a maple board one, & I'm not a big fan of maple, so it wasn't a fair comparison. I'd love to try one, & I don't doubt that they are great guitars. My only doubt is when they sell for more than a comparable US Fender.

I think some people are missing my point. You said "so why should i pay BIG dollar for a Fender when in my opinion a Springy is a much better guitar". I agree. My point is why pay ?775 for a Sunburst Springy (admittedly a dealer's price), when I can get a US 62RI in a custom colour for ?550?

The real scandal, in my opinion, is the money that people are paying for 70s Fender Strats - big headstock, ugly decal, thick poly finish & 3 bolt neck. No thanks...

The reason pre 65 Fenders go for so much is that they are often bought by collectors who keep them in the case as an investment, and never play them. It bothers me that the same thing is happening with some Tokais, & it seems a real waste. I'm only an average player, but all of my guitars get played, either at gigs or at home.

Mike

 

[Rossi]

Good reply stratman323 Give a Springy ST80 a good play if you find one then you will see why they are a bit more money than a US 62RI they are a lot better and not just the nitro thing.Better wood/ pups/sustain/ and playability its the whole feel,but i do know what your saying and were your coming from.Cheers

 

[MIJvintage]

I know that many people have a thing for the Springy Sound Tokais BUT I can't help but believe that the early Goldstar Sound Tokais are actually a better deal, and likely just as good of a guitar.

My L115** serial number Goldstar (round laminated rose') has a 2 piece center seam alder body, has the steel block (unlike MANY Springys), and it has the correct head stock look (does NOT have that dumb walnut plug like so many of the rose' board Springys have)

Add to that, the fact that it's one of the best playing & best sounding Strats I have ever played or owned.
I know why I do NOT spend the big money (2 or 3 times) on those over priced zinc block Springys, with that silly looking walnut plug, on a rose' neck

But then, to each his own...................

 

[Anonymous]

At the risk of contradicting myself, surely the advantage of the better Springys (80 and above?) is that they are nitro finished. To me, that was always the biggest difference between my 86 US 62RI Strat and my 88 Jap 62RI Tele. The nitro finish on the US guitar made a huge difference to how comfortable it felt to play.

However, the Goldstars do seem to be a much better deal, presumably because they're so much more common?

Hopefully I might be swapping my maple neck Goldstar for my mates rosewood board Goldstar soon. Mine is in better condition, and is all original, but the rosewood board and the slimmer neck make his guitar more attractive to me, even if it's worth less money.

Mike

 

[MIJvintage]

I actually prefer a poly finish, over a nitro finish, just as long as the poly is very thin

the finish on my Goldstar Sound I'm sure is poly but it is soooooo thin, and it has sunken down into the wood grain nicely; it looks like an old vintage instrument, minus the checking

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting, what advantage does the poly finish have? I always feel that my hands sweat more on a poly finish neck, or maybe it's because nitro absorbs the sweat in a way that poly doesn't?

I wish I preferred poly - I'd be able to buy cheaper guitars and still enjoy them as much :lol:

 

[villager]

"some people are putting huge markups on their guitars",

If you make a statement like that you need to be able to justify it... so tell me ...what exactly is my "huge markup" I would be interested to see how close your estimate is..



this is your opinion mike...

My opinion is that you have no real idea about the market value of a good ST-80, the cost of the guitar in Japan, the rarity factor, the shipping, the import duty, etc etc...

why is an original 62 fender more expensive than a 62 reissue? why is a squire cheaper than a tokai?
because of a few factors..construction quality, playability and rarity/collectability..its a combination of these 3... thats why an ST-80 is more expensive than a Fender reissue from the 80's..

jumping@shadows was asking for an ST-80, not a critique of, or opinions on, the price... its really up to him as the potential buyer, to determine if the price is what he wishes to pay, and to see if there are any others available for a better price..(which there are not by the way)

....but thats just my "opinion" of course..



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1982-Tokai-ST-80-Sunburst-Strat-Brownie-56-Reissue_W0QQitemZ160137103698QQihZ006QQcategoryZ38082QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD4VQQcmdZViewItem

this is cheaper than mine ...

of course theres no garuantee with it, no exchange policy, and you have to add shipping and import duty too..

 

[settebello]

Its relisted,last time was $1000 reserve not met.For that price you better
buy in europe and have no trouble,as villager says.

Volker

 

[Anonymous]

My comment about mark-ups was specifically about Goldstars, since I recently bought one for ?200. I saw a dealer on eBay recently asking over ?500 for a comparable guitar. That, to me, sounds like a huge mark-up. If it applies to Goldstars, it seems reasonable to assume that it applies to Springys too.

Villager, if you're suggesting that you know more about the value of Tokais than I do, I'd agree with you. Since you are a dealer, you'd have to know more than I do, or you'd go out of business! With regard to import duty etc. you're also right, it's a mystery to me, as I said in an earlier post on a different thread. That's why I wouldn't buy a guitar from outside the UK.

You seem to be suggesting that it's wrong of me to say that I wouldn't pay ?775 for a Springy? If that's the case, we might as well just close the forum now! I would have thought that discussions about the relative costs of Tokais versus the competition was exactly what a discussion forum was for.

I also made another point (which you have ignored) that the "value" of many guitars has been artificially inflated by collectors who buy them and never play them. This certainly applies to old Fenders, & I get the impression that it's happening with some Tokais too. As a player, I find that regrettable, & I imagine that many other forum members will do as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi! As Mark said - the real problem with ST80s is to get hold of them. Bloody difficult. Dead easy to find Fender reissues. So supply and demand clearly plays a role too. Of course this is not that important if you just look for a player.

I also believe that soundwise you have to look at Fender Masterbuilts to match an ST80.

I had a few US made F-Strats, but during the past couple of months sold all of them. Not a single one could match a good Tokai. :wink:


Cheers. Rupert

 

[villager]

ok fair enough that was not made clear in your post...

a springy 80 is a completely different guitar to a goldstar...its older, more desirable, rarer, and nitro finished...

no I am not suggesting its wrong of you to say you wouldnt pay that for a springy 80...thats your choice..(I choose not to pay ?150000 for a 59 LP...lol..).but then I dont think you would get a springy 80 for much less..

your point about collectors .. I didnt ignore it ..I just dont think its correct... I have never ever sold a guitar to someone who does not play the guitar...everyone I have have ever met is a player of some sort...I think that there are very very few actual collectors out there who dont play..so its actually the players who are willing to pay for the instrument that they want, and who know that what they are getting, is, in their view, the best available to them, and are prepared to pay for that choice...they are the people who are driving up the prices...its a simple equation of supply and demand ...there really are not that many of these guitars out there in comparison to the mass produced stuff from other "big brand" manufacturers... and they are in my opinion, far better guitars ...