Where's my sustain?

[dudu]

So I've gotten the '07 LS75 with plain top. It feels great, it looks great, it has a very nice voice but... I noticed the sustain is pretty low, half of the one of my Vintage V100, which is in a much lower price range.

I'm wondering, could it be the poly finish that's killing vibrations? I did consider the pickups, but I really doubt they're the culprits...

I'd appreciate some insight...

 

[Ozeshin]

Well the Vintage is Poly finish as well...
Does it sustain acoustically?
Do you play clean or with O/D?

 

[dudu]

I have the Icon series from Vintage, with a *very* thin finish, almost like the nitro on, let's say, the Highway 1 Strat. I'm only comparing acoustical sustain here. The difference is quite noticeable even when not plugged in. So regardless of the clean/drive settings it's still there.

 

[Slinky Slinger]

Just my thoughts, but I doubt very much it has anything to do with the finish of the guitar. The first thing I would check is pickup hieght, if the strings are to close the pickups they will deaden sustain because of there magnetism. Second, check the nut slots, if the strings don't seat properly that is another sustain sucker. HTH,

SS

 

[dudu]

Pickups - checked. I slid them up & down until the sound was OK. Not too muddy, not too shallow.

The nut may be a culprit too, I'm using 010-046 and it looks like it was cut for 009-042 or so (which is weird for this type of guitar). I completely forgot about it, thanks!

I'll get back with the results once I widen the string slots in the nut a bit.

 

[Anonymous]

The worst that poly lacquer would do (compared to nitro) is to give a kind of boxed-in sound to the guitar. Nitro can make the guitar sound more open and lively. And there are plenty of people who would argue that what I just said isn't true, or isn't noticeable.

But I have never heard of poly lacquer affecting sustain in any way. The main factor affecting sustain tends to be the wood - not just the body or the neck individually, but how well those two (or more) bits of wood happen to work together.

 

[JohnA]

I think Slinky Slinger is probably right. Is this with open strings or fretted? If fretted where on the neck?

a bit more neck relief or a slightly higher action might help.

 

[dudu]

Seems to have enough sustain until the 12th fret. The sudden decay appears for notes above the 12th fret.

 

[Jim Jones]

As mentioned, raising the action can make a huge difference.

I bought a Gibson LP Special last summer and it was way less lively-sounding than my Tokai Junior. I raised the action up some and it started vibrating like a tuning fork. Me likey.

Jim

 

[JohnA]

Seems to have enough sustain until the 12th fret. The sudden decay appears for notes above the 12th fret.

Definetely sound like the action is a bit low, a tiny bit can make a huge difference. If it was the neck relief you would be experiencing problems lower down the fretboard.

What is the action at the 12th fret? top of fret to bottom of string?

 

[dudu]

3mm at the low E and 2.5 at the high E

 

[JohnA]

3mm at the low E and 2.5 at the high E

That's not especially low for a Les-Paul style guitar, was your 'Vintage' about the same?

 

[dudu]

Yes, and a few others that I saw before Epis, mostly. Plus, it came set up like this and I didn't feel the need to set it up differently. There's no fret buzz so I felt happy. I will try increasing the action a bit and see how it goes..

 

[JohnA]

If there is no fret buzz then I wouls expect the sustan on a decent Japanese Tokai to be as good or better than a Vintage or Epiphone???

Are the strings the same gauge as on your Vintage? Have you re-strung the guitar or is this the strings it came with? If so re-stringing might help.

I don't know how available decent luthiers are in Bucharest but if you know one it might be worth-while getting the guitar checked over. I'm in Romania quite a lot with work, lovely place but from what I've seen not many guitar shops!

 

[dudu]

Hehe, maybe our paths will cross some day for a pint. Feel free to drop me a line when you come around.

Yes, unfortunately there aren't many guitar shops, and the ones who exist mostly bring mid-low end merchandise, so they can be sure they'll sell it. There may be a couple of good luthiers, I heard rumours, I need to check that out.

About the strings.. yes, they are the same gauge now, 010-046. The only difference is the brand - I put DRs on the Tokai, I have Ernie Balls on the Vintage.

 

[JohnA]

Probably going to be there in Feb so I'll give you a shout for that pint :wink:

As long as you have good strings on both there should be no real difference, If you had cheap 9's on the Tokai and quality 11's on the Vintage that could have explained things.

I would recommend getting the guitar checked ove, even if it's just for your peace of mind.

 

[dudu]

Probably going to be there in Feb so I'll give you a shout for that pint :wink:

As long as you have good strings on both there should be no real difference, If you had cheap 9's on the Tokai and quality 11's on the Vintage that could have explained things.

I would recommend getting the guitar checked ove, even if it's just for your peace of mind.

That's cool There will be a nice blues concert on the 9th, IIRC.

 

[dudu]

Sorry for the fuss.

I thought of mentioning that I've replaced the Ernie Balls on the Vintage with DRs. Surprise. The sustain is much smaller on the Vintage as well. Not as small as on the Tokai, but very close. Besides that, I have Seymour Duncan pickups on the Vintage (SH4 and '59) while the Tokai has the stock Gotohs. And yes, the nut does seem a bit unfinished, the slots are merely cut (the lower E doesn't even fit in completely). I'll rule out each detail, but i'm pretty sure already that the wood is fine.

 

[JohnA]

Excellent news!! We all know what it's like to worry, so no need to apologise for the fuss. Interesting to hear the DR's sustain less that the Ernie Balls.

 

[leadguitar_323]

Hi guys, just as a matter of interest i use quite heavy gauges the lightest being 52 to 10 and i can guarantee you get thicker tone and more sustain.
To get around the extra tension i tune down up to a tone down, and i think you also get better note definition when playing chords too, i think this may be why jazz players generally use heavier gauge strings. Enough rambling ..

Mick