Tokai TTE-50

[GJmetal]

https://reverb.com/item/54727634-tokai-breezysound-tte-50-2000-candy-apple-red
Anyone can confirm this is in original state and from japan?

Regards

 

[Sigmania]

That’s a weird one.

First, the neck is not for a TTE. That is an ATE neck shape.



I have never seen a neck production code stamp like that on a Tokai.



And no "Made in Japan" ink stamp.

The neck plate is not Tokai. It’s an aftermarket plate you can find on line. Not sure what to make of that number on it.

0012192



That neck pocket is odd. I have not seen that type of date stamp on a Tokai where they spell out the month, nor that circular rout.




While I can't completely say it's not legit since it was made during a period where there is a lot of mystery and lack of information, I can say that there are a lot of red flags and anomalies, and I would say stay away from that one.

 

[Sigmania]

BTW, who the heck is "Tokai Europe" ???

It says: "Built: 2000 (confirmed by Tokai Europe)"

I have seen posts on Facebook by people claiming to be Tokai this or that that seem to have no idea what they are talking about.

I would love to know who exactly confirmed that was a 2000 Tokai guitar.

 

[GJmetal]

Haha I dont know. Thanks again sigmania you're a real specialist. Btw May I know how you see its a ATE neck and not a TTE? I was offered this as a trade but will indeed stay away from it.

 

[Sigmania]

You are welcome. And I have just seen so many guitars from this period and this one is a huge outlier.

There is always a possibility that it was a Korean build or subcontracted somehow, but nothing is adding up.

And that neck plate is bizarre.



Someone went through a lot of trouble to try to make it look legit by having Tokai on the neckplate, but nothing about it seems right based on what I have seen.

Too many things are off to list, so I would walk.

And as far as the TTE/ATE thing goes, the shape of the end is not round, there is a slight flat spot in the curve of the outline. It is subtle, but I think I am seeing it. It's early in the morning here, so I could be wrong but looks like an ATE shape to me.

 

[Sigmania]

Btw, what is this?

 

[Sigmania]

I bet it would be interesting to look under the pickguard.

 

[GJmetal]

Also received this one yet..

 

[Sigmania]

That is interesting, but it is an entirely different font than every other "no serial" Tokai I have seen.



Btw, I am completely disregarding that neck plate & serial number. It is very sketchy.

Check out these threads to see what I mean and why this guitar is such an outlier.

All Caps "MADE IN JAPAN" No Serial Guitars

Upper And Lower Case "Made In Japan" No Serial Guitars

 

[Sigmania]

This is the all caps font I have always seen.



The one on that guitar is unlike every other one I have found.

 

[GJmetal]

Maybe he did put MIJ himself? Lol

 

[Sigmania]

If you toss out that neck plate, it is possible this guitar was made by a heretofore unknown type of marking system by Tokai Japan. Possible, but the burden is on the seller since this is entirely unique in my experience.

Would love to be shown pictures under that pickguard.

 

[Sigmania]

If it is legit, then I would guess it would date around 2000 and before 2003/4 when that all caps version I showed you was in place.

Or in between it and the upper and lower caps version that shows up by 2009.

That is increasing the pressure on looking under the pick guard.

 

[Sigmania]

And that date stamp in the neck pocket is 2006 or 2008.

 

[GJmetal]

So what info can we find under the pickguard that would be helpfull?

 

[Sigmania]

I am leaning towards possible 2008 build, but the neck plate is bogus in my opinion.

And the weird round rout in the neck pocket is still odd, as is the punched code on the neck.

Really need to see if there are codes or tell tale signs under the pickguard.

 

[Sigmania]

So what info can we find under the pickguard that would be helpfull?

There should be a production stamp in the cavity of the body that should be similar to if not match the one on the neck.

There are also patterns of routing that are typical for Tokai that we would look for.

Also the electronics.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

I'm pretty (80%) sure that neck pocket looks like it was made in Ensenada, Mexico and on top of the obvious oddities (as in "never seen before") on the neck I find the headstock does not exactly match the Japanese ATE shape either. Whatever it is, it isn't what the seller claims it is and it's priced like a genuine example so that's all a big no.

 

[Sigmania]

There have been many ATE shapes over the years.

And I try to never say never with Tokais, but this one is putting a strain on that maxim.

Neck plate is a no. The neck is curious. Need to see under the hood on the body.

 

[Homer J. Simpson]

There have been many ATE shapes over the years

I know. However, some things seem odd in this particular combination:



1. Big radius here, even more like on TE headstocks, ATE are usually more curved (smaller radius). The whole HS appears oddly stretched (could be the pic).
2. This flattened radius is just a hint, but I see it too. I think you'll agree that this is very, very unusual and neither typical for TE nor for ATE.
3. Walnut plug. Never mind. Too lazy to redo the pic without it.

Just a theory (doesn't match 100%, also due to 1., but that would require a refinish and possibly losing the original heel stamps):



This one went through classifieds here, no serial, all caps MIJ stamp on heel (known font though), alas too long ago so the actual pics are gone:



Similar flattened (2.) radius, but smaller (1.) radius. Maybe Tokai made a few necks this way post-2000, maybe the ATE-TE (or AST-ST) conversion is actually a thing or maybe I'm just seeing things.