Sigh... I hate auctions

[Spleen]

Well, I've been trying to get into the Tokai "club" for a couple weeks now and it seems that the secret is long out. Japanese buyers and sellers know the value of these guitars.

I thought if I had a buddy from Japan bid on Yahoo auctions Japan I'd get a good deal. No dice. At the last minute some buyer with 400 guitars sold under his belt snaps it up every time. I don't want to make a pile of money selling these things I just want to own one. I lost auctions on a 1980 Greco Super real and a 1980 Tokai Les Paul Reborn yesterday. Granted these are both highly sought after collector's items but I just want to play them!

Part of the problem of course is budget. I need to factor shipping to my buddy's place as well as him shipping to me in Canada. After you factor that in it doesn't take long for a sweet deal to turn into an expensive one.

Anyway, I just wanted to vent. I've lost 5 auctions in 2 weeks and could have bid on more but am afraid of burning out my buddy (and his japanese wife). I think I'm done. Maybe I'll just look at getting a korean Tokai from JSD.

 

[ochay]

www.auctionsniper.com

:lol:

 

[shuie]

Why not just bid what you are willing to pay for one? Or post a WTB in the classifieds here? :-?

 

[hans-j?rgen]

And maybe you shouldn't concentrate on 1980 guitars at all then (if you don't want to resell them a few weeks later), because there still are some good bargains for only slightly newer Tokais. I would rather avoid any "1980" model instead, because I wouldn't be sure if it's a fake or not.

 

[Skybone]

Spleen,

Good luck in finding yourself a nice Tokai (or any other MIJ LP rep), just think of the one's you didn't get were obviously not the guitars for you, and your one will come up some time soon. Hows that for positive spin?

Hope your luck changes soon.

 

[sneakyjapan]

picked up a Bill`s Brothers strat tonight off Yahoo Japan. First tim I saw one with the Fender headstock, they usually have a bit of a hook to em. There was a tine when these came with Bill Lawrence p`ups. These days they are MIK but the one I got seems older so I`ll have to wait and see. Paid $72.oo for it.

 

[ochay]

Here's a killer AXE all the fixins !!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7357000943&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEFS%3AIT&rd=1

 

[villager]

thats a pancake body isnt it ochay?

 

[villager]

go for a 1981 to 84 LS-80 ...forget the reborn 120's you were bidding on (as was I) ...too expensive... LS-80 is just as good a guitar only not flamed..and the specs from 81-84 are the same as the reborns ..you should get a nice plain LS-80 early love rock for about 80000 yen..(lol if I dont see it first)

 

[villager]

http://search5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/search/auc?p=tokai&auccat=22488&alocale=0jp&acc=jp

this is a nice one ..

 

[ochay]

I don't think the EG900 has the pancake body-The 4 EG850/900's I have had were 1 piece Mahogany bodies-

Some of the early 76thru79 Greco Les Pauls have the hollow bodies but definitly not all- I would stay away from those with the hollow bodies (Kinda Cheezy sounding if you ask me??)
I remember the first EG700 I got I thought it was bitchen sounding/Feeling - Solid Maple top/2 piece Mahogany body, Fret edge binding- the one thing I did notice about her was the headstock angle- real shollow-with a smaller headstock-les string tension-

Yep, Yep

 

[villager]

Ive had a few pre 1980 850's and 900's some pancake some not..

 

[theskywolf]

I've been asking the seller about the EG900, but don't know about the body. He told me it has a 3-piece maple (!) neck and would be a precise copy of a 70s Gibbo ... the top really looks good, and/or os very well photographed!

Spleen, I too think a early 80s LS-80 is the thing to go for!

 

[Spleen]

Thanks for the advice and input guys. I actually won an auction, and am technically the owner of a 1982 Mint Collection Greco EG59-100. Tokais were just too pricy for my meagre budget and I paid more for this guitar than I wanted to (or perhaps should have), 42,500 yen.

My friend in Japan should receive the guitar in a couple days and then he's going to ship it to me SAL so it'll likely be a few weeks before I get to see it. I'll start a post with some pics in the "Other" guitar section. There are some definite oddities about the guitar, which I think I like. (I love guitars with personality).

 

[Skybone]

Congrats on your new toy!

Hope it gets to you soon!

 

[hackenfort]

Well after 7 years of e-bay auctions my current Tokai auction has led me to HATE them too!

I put my Love Rock up for sale, looking to re-cover most of what I paid for it. I posted it here for sale and for information about it too.

Because of the ser no doesn't fit the profile on the main tokai forum page. I have asked people to read in the forum as there is much discussion about this period and the variations of numbers used. Because of this, I have been called a LIAR, CHEAT, FORGER and a few other choice phrases.

I paid $685 for this guitar, plus I had to purchased a case for it, it came from Japan in a gig bag. Once no one on the forums seemed interested I went to e-bay. I put the price up a few dollars to cover all the costs associated with e-bay. I am now very sorry I ever put it there for sale. As of this morning over 30 people are watching the auction, I received 3 threading e-mails today.

What I don't understand, why anyone would forge a copy? I have represented the guitar to the best of my ability. The real killer, I'm NOT asking a fortune for the guitar either. I typically see these selling for much more than my opening price and in much worse condition.

I have sold big ticket guitars such as LP Historic's, a PRS Dragon and Rosewood Limited with less hassle and scrutiny than this. I'm not sure why this sale has brought out the nasty attitude in some.

It won't break my heart if this guitar doesn't sell - I may even pull the plug before it ends. It's a great guitar for not a lot of money.

Sorry for my venting this morning, Has anyone else experienced this?

Kevin

[email protected]

 

[mike martin]

hi hakenfort
dont lose heart i know the feeling, if i hadnt bought another loverock on friday and springysound the week before i would have had a go at yourguitar, i had a usa strat fore sale last week i had it split up and the accusations that were fired at me saying that ther was something wrong when i was willing to split it was incredable, i finnished up taking it off ebay after a couple of dudes offered me 200 pounds for it , took it down to my local music shop to get them to sell it for me, and they actually bought itfor ?375 . unfotunatly there are too many people just get a kick out of asking stupid questions on ebay, and are never going to bib for it anyway
mike

 

[hackenfort]

Mike

Thanks for the encouraging words. This morning's group of e-mails just got to me. People accusing me of faking the guitar, calling me a liar, treating law suites! Your right, I'll bet they won't even bid, just trying to mix things up.

I could see someone faking a late 50's Les Paul's or vintage strats with the prices were they are, but not a sub 1K Tokai, but what do I know.

I'm not that type of person that would try to do this, nor do I have the talent to do so.

Funny story, I was at the vintage guitar show a while back, looking at a early 60's shoreline gold strat, nice condition, fairly big money (under 10K).

The dealer presented it to me as all original, single owner etc?.. I asked my friend Jack who re-finishes guitars to look at it, just to see if he could spot any thing funny. His reply, "I don't need to, I just made the body and painted it a few months ago, they did the aging/relic job themselves". He told me vintage dealers keep him very busy, and this is much more common than anyone knows.


Have a great day

Kevin

 

[mike martin]

hi hack
theres another one on ebay a springy and that guys the same he' s been called a liar too cause his rear p/u cover hasnt aged like the rest of them. he done the sensible thing and took the accusers bid off his item.any how
i still think your axe will get sold near enouhg to your price. as i said i would have got it but i bought those other 2 over the last two weeks
mike :roll:

 

[Dogger]

Hi Hackenfort,

I've been watching the auction you referred to, mostly to help my brother with his decision whether to purchase or not because I already own a 1981 Loverock and so he's desparately seeking my advice on your guitar. He's the guy from Montreal who's been asking you a bunch of questions. He's absolutely in love with your guitar and he's actually losing sleep on whether or not to buy. By no means does he accuse you of any wrongdoing, but he's having difficulty with the decision because of the huge debate over these inked serial number guitars. I know a bit about vintage Tokais but the truth is that I don't know the answer to this debate, there's good evidence on both sides (authentic vs. fake). So I don't know what to tell my brother, I'm just glad he's doing his research. I lean towards the side of these being authentic and vintage, as does my bro, but when you're shelling out that kind of money, even a tiny bit of doubt makes it an incredibly tough decision. Did you buy this guitar from Hiro? I bought my guitar from him, he's excellent and quite knowledgeable. So just so you know, you do have one extremely interested watcher who's having a really hard time with this decision, he just wants to make sure he'll have peace of mind buying what is such a "controversial" guitar. Both of us are hoping it's the real deal because it's a beauty of a guitar and I'd love for him to have it and share in the joy of playing a vintage Love Rock.

I hope that makes you feel a little bit better about this situation. I also hope you're not frustrated with my bro and some of his questions, I highly doubt he's one of the guys accusing you of fraud. I guess you have to put yourself in his shoes to understand what he's going through. I'm kinda glad I don't have to make that decision. Right now, I'd say there's a good chance he'll bid but that's really up to him, he's still doing his homework trying to get as much info and opinions as he can from the topics on this forum.

But again I want to reiterate, both him and I do not at all question your character, we have no doubt that you're a genuine guy.

Peace.