Newbie - Pls. help ID my Love Rock

[cherryburst]

Hi Guys - I'm new to the forum and need some help.

Whilst shopping for a back-up guitar for my Les Paul, I fell in love with a Tokai Love Rock and so far it has surpassed all expectations. I have always known that Tokais punch above their weight but this guitar is sweeter than many Gibsons I have owned or played.

Anyway, can you help me tell which model I have? The impressed serial # is 05094xx, "Made in Japan" inked on back of headstock, it's a cherry sunburst flametop (veneer? looks amazing if it is), ABR-1 style bridge, 2 humbuckers, Kluson style tuners, trapezoid inlays, sandwich body - in fact from a distance it looks like a Les Paul R9. Price was approx. ?600.

Apart from the model, can you guys confirm some specs? i.e. type of pickups, contstruction of body/top (type of woods used) etc. Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi cherryburst!

If you want details I'd recommend that you post detailled pics.

The serial points to a 2005, but that's all I can say.

Rgds, Rup

 

[cherryburst]

Thanks - I'll borrow a digital camera when I get a chance and post some pics.

From reading another thread here, it would appear that my Love Rock has a sound enhancing body (SEB) which is a totally new concept to me.

I pulled the pickups, but although there were some pencil marks in the cavities under the lacquer I couldn't make them out.

I'll see if I can see anything in the control cavity which might provide a clue.

Although it would appear to be a NOS '05, I'm confused because the shop had just got it in.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi!
If you've got an SEB for UKP 600.-- then you'll got a fairly good deal IMHO.
Rup

 

[cherryburst]

That's good to know, the guy in the shop didn't know what model it was. What do the SEBs normally sell for?

This SEB thing is totally new to me, I just noticed another thread here that mentioned it and the pics totally matched what the sides of my guitar looked like - i.e. you can see the double mahogany slab with perpendicular joins.

Can anyone explain the SEB concept? BTW It's the first Love Rock I've seen locally in a shop for less than about ?800 - I was a bit dubious until I saw it was a MIJ model. I re-strung it the other day and the tailpiece was as light as a feather, is it likely to be aluminium? The p/ups have a great tone as well.

All in all it totally blows away a LP Studio, and it's giving my LP Classic a serious run for it's money! Any more info on likely specs would be greatly appreciated guys.

 

[cherryburst]

OK - I've been doing some sleuthing, and it appears that what I have got is a LS 125 SEB with a cherry sunburst flametop. The product code V131 corresponds with what appears in one of the p/up cavities under the lacquer.

This "lacquer" finish - is it more nitro than poly? Or neither?

And is slightly less than ?600 a fair price for this model?

And finally, I assume the SEB models have been around since 2005?

Thanks for any and all contributions! I'm very happy with this guitar, all it needs is a pickguard and it will be complete! :wink:

 

[leadguitar_323]

Hi mate, i'm not sure exactly when Tokai started production of the "SEB" models but i have the 2005 catalogue and they are in there. It also says lacquer finish. The whole idea with the "SEB" bodies is that sound travels better along the grain than through it, so the center of the guitar is done in blocks with the grain facing the top and bottom of the guitar to transfer the vibrations to the top of the guitar, i hope this isn't to confusing.
Cheers Mick

 

[cherryburst]

Thanks Mick, I'm grateful for any info I can get on this model.

I've seen Tokai's diagram of the SEB system, and as far as I can make out your description is a good one.

Do you (or anyone else) have a Love Rock that utilises this construction, and what is your opinion of it? I haven't had mine long, but in comparison to my Les Paul Classic it stands up very well. Of course the pickups play a big part, but the Love Rock seems to have a very full tone and sustains for longer. I'll have a better idea when I have A-B'd both over a longer period of time.

I'm quite impressed with the pickups as well (these are the PAF Mk IIs, right?), the neck is very warm and smooth and not as muddy as some Gibsons I have owned/played, whilst the bridge is everything I would expect in this price range. So far, no temptation to change anything in this department, which is a good sign.

Having said that - I'd like to upgrade some of the plastics, and perhaps add a pickguard. Does anyone know if the pickup spacing is the same as a Les Paul (I'm working away for a couple of days so I can't measure my Classic), or does anyone have a Tokai pickguard that they might want to sell?

Are there any british companies that sell repro plastic, inc. R/T poker chips, vol./tone knobs etc. for Les Pauls?

 

[leadguitar_323]

Hi cherryburst, i don't have one but there are forum members that do, maybe someone will chime in with a response. The mkII's are very good particulary the neck IMHO. I'm in Australia and the only site i know of ,{and i'm sure there's more} is this one
http://www.fake58.co.uk/Parts%20For%20Gibson.htm
hope this helps
cheers Mick

 

[cherryburst]

Thanks again Mick

Here's another site I found if any other members want to make their Tokais more "vintage authentic"

http://www.fatboyguitars.co.uk/index.htm

 

[hawkeye2u]

Please don't fall into this, IMHO ,silly aging trap!!
Let the guitar age, with its original parts, gracefully.
Every guitar has its battle scars and dings and a story to tell.
Premature aging is FAKE,end of story

Look after the guitar and it will look after you in the future!!

Cheerst

 

[Anonymous]

Premature aging is FAKE,end of story

So what? So is making a guitar in Japan in 1978 stating on the headstock "THIS IS THE EXACT REPLICA OF THE GOOD OLD STRAT".

Or calling a guitar "Les Paul Reborn". :roll:

Mike

 

[cherryburst]

Please don't fall into this, IMHO ,silly aging trap!!
Let the guitar age, with its original parts, gracefully.
Every guitar has its battle scars and dings and a story to tell.
Premature aging is FAKE,end of story

Look after the guitar and it will look after you in the future!!

Cheerst

LOL! I've been hanging out at the LPF far too much. If it's any consolation, any parts I get will be unaged. The relicing will be done by myself by simply playing the thing (and sometimes dropping it by accident, but no cigarette burns or razor blades).

As far as fake goes, the Love Rock is no more than a fake Les Paul to start with. I'm just making mine a more accurate, better looking fake. Is that so fake?

If you own a Tokai, chances are you're guilty of fakery yourself, by owning a Fake.

Oh, and the original parts will stay in the case so I can get full market value in 50 years time.

Peace!

Oh, and I'd still like a pickguard to fit a Love Rock, or is that fake as well? :wink:

Edit:- I notice I did mention the pretentious phrase "vintage authentic", so maybe I'm guilty as charged. I just think if you're buying something that looks 95% like a Les Paul, why not go the extra 5%, not necessarily with fake aging?

 

[cherryburst]

Update - as far as I can make out the LS125SEB now has the designation LS138SEB, but I'm still trying to glean as much info as I can on these models, including the benefits or otherwise of the SEB construction.

I still plan to go the AVH route (sorry hawkeye!) and jazz it up with some repro vintage Gibson plastic parts (unaged of course), but I'm not sure about whether the repro pickguard and truss rod covers will be a correct fit for a Tokai. Fatboy was out of stock with the p/up surrounds and toggle switch, but I've made a start by ordering his R/T switch ring meantime.

I'll have pics of the guitar available to post in the next day or two.

 

[mlivingstone]

Hey Cherryburst.

What's with the new repro vintage Gibson parts - in particular the selector switch ring. As far as I'm aware the Tokais have always used the vintage correct thin ring compared to the thicker contemporary Gibson one. Also I was under the impression that the top carve between the pups on Tokai Love Rocks was more vintage correct as were the pickup rings?

Plus have you checked that you don't already have Switchcraft electronics in there already? - Medium to high end Love Rocks do?

 

[cherryburst]

Hey Cherryburst.

What's with the new repro vintage Gibson parts - in particular the selector switch ring. As far as I'm aware the Tokais have always used the vintage correct thin ring compared to the thicker contemporary Gibson one. Also I was under the impression that the top carve between the pups on Tokai Love Rocks was more vintage correct as were the pickup rings?

Plus have you checked that you don't already have Switchcraft electronics in there already? - Medium to high end Love Rocks do?

Well, apart from the fact that I'm a tinkerf***, the colour of the R/T ring and p/up surrounds look a little strange on my Love Rock - not as pink as some of Gibson's stuff but still not right. These parts, together with the selector switch are the only parts I will change - although I would like a scratchplate too but only because the guitar never came with one and I am accustomed to having one on my LP Classic. The volume/tone knobs and all other hardware are fine and will be staying.

I don't think I mentioned the electronics, but I have no plans to touch anything in that department unless a real need arises. I'd like a bit more of a linear response from the volume and tone pots but I don't make frequent changes on the hoof so they do the job well enough.
The PAF 2 pickups are just fine for my needs and I'm looking forward to getting to know them better through some different amps.

So really it's just a couple of cosmetic changes to enhance an extremely attractive top, but I understand that this talk of this repro stuff (not too mention relicing/aging) sometime provokes a volatile response - although to be fair your points were from a common sense perspective and I fully appreciate what you were saying.

Rock on!

 

[leadguitar_323]

I can't come to grips with the "fake " thing. These guitars are replicas of the original gibsons and are a more authentic { excluding the seb's} replication than the modern gibsons. Also as for them to be fakes they would have to have the gibson headstock inlay's as well. We buy these guitars for what they are a very well made and well priced instrument and gibson wouldn't have anything to worry about if they built guitars for musicians instead of profit. I just think everyone should get over this fake crap and see these guitars for what they really are, world class instruments.
Cheers Mick

 

[mlivingstone]

"Tinkerf***" - That's a new one on me - I like it.

I don't have any issue with anyone wanting to fake/relic their guitar - just didn't see how much closer you could get than what's on there.

The electronics I was referring to included the pickup selector switch which is a Switchcraft part on the higher models and is usually considered an upgrade on the usual Japanese fare. I'm not convinced. I have an LS65 with Japanese parts and an LS150 with the Switchcraft part. Both switches fail intermittently. They look clean enough but maybe something from the manufacturing process gets in there.

As for the pickguard my LS150 didn't ship with one and I asked for one from the shop. The sent a 'genuine Gibson' part. It was a horrible pink and didn't fit - the pup spacings differ. You should be able to get one from Bob at the UK Tokai distributor which will match your current plastics - but not if you then change these.

Hope this helps.

PS - Stop tinkerf***ing and play it. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I can't come to grips with the "fake " thing. These guitars are replicas of the original gibsons and are a more authentic { excluding the seb's} replication than the modern gibsons.

Fake, replica, re-issue, copy, it's all much the same thing. We're arguing over semantics here. The bottom line (as I think BillyWizz pointed out some time ago) is that the Japanese may be excellent craftsmen & women, with top quality control and excellent attention to detail etc. But they are not innovators - most of the best Japanese guitars are replicas/copies/fakes of classic US instruments. You could even argue a similar point about Japanese cars, though I think that is a little more tenuous.

How many great original Japanese guitars have there been? Even models like the Yamaha SG2000 (which I've never seen mentioned on here) might look like an original design, but was almost like an LP & SG morphed into one guitar. Does anyone want to claim that the Tokai Talbo was a masterpiece?

However good the quality might be, a guitar that is a blatant copy of a Gibson or Fender is a fake, & I don't know why it upsets people to admit that.

Mike

 

[cherryburst]

I can't come to grips with the "fake " thing. These guitars are replicas of the original gibsons and are a more authentic { excluding the seb's} replication than the modern gibsons. Also as for them to be fakes they would have to have the gibson headstock inlay's as well. We buy these guitars for what they are a very well made and well priced instrument and gibson wouldn't have anything to worry about if they built guitars for musicians instead of profit. I just think everyone should get over this fake crap and see these guitars for what they really are, world class instruments.
Cheers Mick

To be fair, I wasn't the one who first introduced the word "fake" into this discussion, although I did use it several times in a lighthearted response to another post. Apologies for any unintentional offense caused.

- BUT - With regard to your points Mick - I agree completely, wholeheartedly, 100%. I own a Gibson Les Paul and I subsequently bought a Love Rock for exactly the reason you state - "they are a very well made and well priced instrument". I bought the LS125 in preference to a more expensive LP Studio, because I felt the LS125 beat the Gibson hands down in most areas.

But the sad thing is, many people will continue to buy Gibsons for one reason only - the fact that the guitar says Gibson on the headstock. And in many cases they will be missing out on a better guitar for the same price or less. I was the same a few years back - as soon as I could afford a Gibson that's what I HAD to have, and at the time no one could talk me out of it.

The thing that amuses me with regard to authenticity is the fact that current Gibson USA LPs are actually semi-hollow body instruments, it's gone far beyond simple chambering - there ain't a great deal of mahogany left. At least my LS125 is a solid body guitar, despite the SEB body construction. :wink: