LS95F Caps?

[dalemajd]

hey guys, i have a LS95F, was wondering how good quality the caps are in them

i have the chance to buy some bumblee repro PIO caps for $15 each here in Australia

was wondering if its worth the $30 or if the stock ones are much differnt

so are the stock caps in the LS95 pio? or something else

also i have a choice of .22uf or .47uf which should i opt for.

 

[Axchisler]

I'll tell you what, I never thought caps could make such a difference until I heard Bumblebees. I have them in a LS100Q and they're the bee's knees! :wink: . .22uF should be fine unless you like no highs whatsoever. There are other really nice caps available, but to me it would be trial and error. When I decide to buy another set it will be BB's, I know I like them. 8)

 

[dalemajd]

thanks for the fast response ax

these arent labelled 'bumblebee repros' but ive heard they are good as they are PIO

they are on this website
at the very bottom

http://www.aceguitarparts.com.au/electronics.html

 

[BlueThird]

Put some Jensens (also PIO) in mine and was definitely impressed. That said, part of the improvement might have been down to the fact that the kit I bought had a 0.015?F cap on the neck pickup.

 

[thepacifist]

This would be a good time to check whether you like the highs - are they enough or more than enough. You could then change the values too

 

[dalemajd]

the highs are good

its not too bright yet not too muddy

its only $30 for a pair. might as well get them

was just wondering how good quality the stock ones are.

 

[Paladin2019]

Cap make & model makes no difference, their job is to take the highs to ground. You never hear the signal that passes through them. Any decent cap will do the job.

Therefore $30 is way too much - it would be your wallet hearing a difference, not your ears.

Now, cap VALUES on the other hand make a BIG difference.

 

[JVsearch]

Cap make & model makes no difference, their job is to take the highs to ground. You never hear the signal that passes through them. Any decent cap will do the job.

Many people claim to have heard a difference, and I don't see why there wouldn't be as the whole thing (pickup, wiring, cap, pot etc) is a circuit? Look, I get your insistence on the fact that caps are not directly in the signal path, but that just seems primarily an objective view; many claim to hear a difference subjectively. Why? Who knows, maybe it is just like you say - you pay for a difference so you will hear one!

So I think people should really just give it a go and see what they find, it's not expensive.

$30 is maybe a bit pricey for those type of caps (PIO 0.022 400v) but they are a branded purpose made cap for guitar use, so that's why they are that much. The Russian PIO caps are pretty easy to get at about $10 to $15 a pair. Just search ebay worldwide for "PIO" in the musical instruments category and quite a few will come up. Of course these will take longer to get to you, and you need a US seller that isn't asking extra postage money for the hassle of having to ship to Aus.

With Bumblebee repros, the only one that is actually PIO is the Luxe one (AFAIK), and the PIO cap that is inside is, oddly enough, a NOS Russian PIO cap very like the ones you will find on ebay, just without the stripey plastic outside bit on them.

 

[Diamond]

Cap make & model makes no difference, their job is to take the highs to ground. You never hear the signal that passes through them. Any decent cap will do the job.

Who knows, maybe it is just like you say - you pay for a difference so you will hear one!

I'll go with this theory.

 

[Paladin2019]

Many people claim to have heard a difference, and I don't see why there wouldn't be as the whole thing (pickup, wiring, cap, pot etc) is a circuit?

I don't understand the "it's a circuit" point. A capcitor has capacitance, and the capacitance value is what's important in the guitar circuit.

Signal:noise and other audio-electrical properties are only relevant in circuits where the capacitor is carrying the audio signal. For example, I use top quality silver-mica caps in my guitar's treble bleed filters. Does it make a difference? Can't say, I've never used the regular kinds, but since I will hear the signal they carry I must have the best! :lol:

The problem with this kind of mod is that people rarely, if ever, do a blind A/B test (I'm guilty of this too - it's just impractical for most people). They listen to their old sound, do the mod, then listen to the new sound. The time between listenings means that your audio memory is questionable at best, and the tester is prejudiced. There's no way the average guitarist is going to be objective especially when the difference between the two sounds is subtle to non-existent and they've paid to hear an improvement! :lol:

I agree that people should try for themselves, and experiment with cap values especially. However, when someone is planning to spend $30 on one set of caps I feel obliged to let them know they can acheive the same result for a tenth of the price! 8)

 

[BlueThird]

Did a series of before and afters when I did mine. Went straight into Logic, which makes it more practical, but even then I had to limit what I did. Did one clean setting, one dirty and within each of those I did tone at 10, 5 and 0. Used presets (never quite ideal) and made careful notes to make sure that I got the same amp settings the second time. Toggle was on centre throughout, volume on full. Total of six recordings. Like I said above, there was a huge difference with a clean amp setup and tone open but much less of a difference with a dirty amp and/or the tone rolled off.

Since there was a change in the neck pickup cap value on the Love Rock (it went from 0.022?F to 0.015?F), you could argue that the change in value made the difference. Personally I don't buy that. As cap values go it was only a slight change, and in any case ??since all of my ABs were with the toggle centred ? the value change was diluted.

Did exactly the same set of recordings a week later when I rewired my Springy Sound using the same brand of cap but different wire. With that the differences were all pretty minimal.

 

[Axchisler]

I like when I can get an almost half cracked wah pedal sound when I turn the tone knob to 4 or 5 and that's what I'm getting with the BB's in my LS100Q. The other two guitars I have; the LS230 that has a black cap about half the size of the BB"s and the ObG GT that is stock, don't give me that sound. I'd rather fork out 30 bucks for some caps than $1000 to find out it's the guitar. Pretty easy (and cheap) to sell and ship caps if they don't work out :wink: .

 

[Paladin2019]

Did a series of before and afters when I did mine. Went straight into Logic, which makes it more practical, but even then I had to limit what I did. Did one clean setting, one dirty and within each of those I did tone at 10, 5 and 0....

A better effort than most, but still not a blind test. Leaving aside the change in cap value (ie. adding another tonal variable to consider), you knew at the time of playing and listening which caps were in your guitar.

Maybe you subconsciously played better with the new caps. Maybe you just heard what you wanted to hear.

As a scientist I have been involved in one or two research projects and you have to take great pains to keep yourself in the dark in this way in order to generate unbiased results.

I often wonder how many of our beloved tone secrets would go out the window if we tested them properly, but it'll never happen because it's such hard work! :lol:

I'm going to bow out of this one now, before long I'll want everyone to test overdrive pedals with a blindfold on...

 

[DaveWW]

I'm going to bow out of this one now, before long I'll want everyone to test overdrive pedals with a blindfold on...

Sounds like fun to me :lol: :lol: Maybe a good activity for the next tokai convention :lol:

 

[BlueThird]

A better effort than most, but still not a blind test. Leaving aside the change in cap value (ie. adding another tonal variable to consider), you knew at the time of playing and listening which caps were in your guitar.

Maybe you subconsciously played better with the new caps. Maybe you just heard what you wanted to hear.

It's not something I'd think of submitting to a scientific journal, true enought, and it wasn't a blind test when I first did it. But by the time I'd compensated for the volume levels and forced it upon some passers by, it was pretty close. (Especially given the level of funding I'd managed to obtain.) I even tried suggesting that the before sample was better, but that didn't make any difference.

Is there ever a truly blind test? Or just one where you think you've eliminated all the variables?

 

[Paladin2019]

Is there ever a truly blind test? Or just one where you think you've eliminated all the variables?

Depends on the test, how you design it, and how you analyse it which is why peer review journals are so critical for the real stuff. It should be possible to get as close as makes no difference if you do it right.