Gibson Les Paul Standard (1990) v Tokai LS150F (2008)

[MattThorpe]

I bought a brand new Tokai LS150F (2008) recently and have been amazed at how good a replica of the Gibson LP it is. However, my Gibson LP has an early 70s DiMarzio Super Distortion Humbucker in the neck postion, which I am clearly used to, and so in comparison, I had been pondering changing the Tokai stock pickup. The Tokai pickup has a nice raw edge to it when pushed hard but I was convinced that overall it seemed quieter with less bass end.

I set about conducting an experiment. I recorded two similar guitar solos into my PC both guitars played through exactly the same Line6 POD setting, recording level and with no compressors in the patch or anything like that! The DiMarzio waveform looked slightly louder (wider pattern) which I was kind of expecting.

I then decided to see how long chords would ring out on each guitar to see if the sustain of the Tokai with the deep tenon neck joint was actually any better than the Gibson that is without this feature.

The waveforms showed that hitting a chord and letting it ring resulted in a longer sustain on the Tokai. I tried this several times and even if I hit the Gibson harder than the Tokai the Tokai still rang on longer.

In case any of you are wondering if it's all hype about Tokai's - it's all true they really are better! Those of us who know this are all very happy people :lol:
It would be interesting to try the Tokai LS150F against a Gibson LPS VOS 1959.

Anyway enough of this I have to go and play my Tokai ......

 

[JohnA]

Sustain, or lack of it, on an LP type guitar can be down to loads of reasons, strings, fret condition, action, pickup height, how tightly the bridge fits on the posts is a big factor just look at the difference a tonepros bridge or similar makes. I really think the long tenon makes little if any difference to the sustain.

Still, whatever it is glad you like the Tokai!! and welcome to the forum

 

[leadguitar_323]

Hmmm, i'm one of the guys who thinks that long tenons produce better sustain, i say this because i think that if you have more "contact" within the joint then it transfers more vibration. It may only be minimal, but it would be noticeable. I also agree with John, any one of the things mentioned can diminish sustain.

Mick

 

[Paladin2019]

Obviously there are many factors involved here and increased tenon length does not automatically mean better sustain. I've always believed that the QUALITY of the neck joint is far more important than its design; I'd rather have a top quality bolt on neck joint than a cheapo set neck.

I believe what Matt has proven is that the quality of Tokai's neck joints is far superior to Gibson's.

There's another simple test you can do at home, one that was once described on Gibson's own site and later removed when the neck joint controversy really hit the internet. Strike the strings while you grip the back of the headstock against the palm of your hand. A regular gibson will resonate much weaker than a historic gibson or a Tokai because there is so little contact between the neck and body. Heck, when I tried this down my local shop the gibson neck resonated less than a MIM Fender Strat.

 

[MattThorpe]

The thickness of the neck is also a major factor to mention. the Tok 59 neck is slightly thicker than the Gibs 60's slimmer neck and may account for some of the improved qualities also.

I think the long tenon must be significant.
During the late 60's when players were looking for significant slab like guitars to powerdrive their non master vol valve amps and rows of 4x12's they turned to the Les paul but many noticed that the late 50's models (58,59,60) had something extra to offer. At the time the LP had been discontinued and then brought back in a different factory where they skimped on the neck joint and weaker pickups etc. We all know this story.
There is good reason why these models gained this holy grail status.
Also as someone mentioned above more surface area of contact has logic in it's favour.

Hey Paladin2019:
Interesting about the palm of the hand test. I tried this and the Tok is positively alive, My Chinese Hagstron Viking Deluxe, a set neck resonates nicely whilst the Gibson LP is pretty well dead in comparison! Hmm!

Anyway, these are just my observations I don't want to tell anybody which is best. We all like a guitar for many differing reasons and having a lively response with loads of sustain does not suit everyone. Still, interesting debate - thanks to everyone for their comments.