81 Solid top LS-120

[chuckyz2]

The seller claims it is the rare 120 with no veneer.
If anyone know this seller, it would be cool to see some pics of the cavity.
I don't believe it. I have seen some listings that claim the same and after
getting pics, they were obviously veneer. It is a nice looking guitar.

https://reverb.com/item/64744533-tokai-ls120-1981-violin-finish-lemon-drop-ls-120

 

[Jlee]

.

 

[moodyedge]

The seller claims it is the rare 120 with no veneer.
If anyone know this seller, it would be cool to see some pics of the cavity.
I don't believe it. I have seen some listings that claim the same and after
getting pics, they were obviously veneer. It is a nice looking guitar.

https://reverb.com/item/64744533-tokai-ls120-1981-violin-finish-lemon-drop-ls-120

I have an 81 120 with a solid top. I have it on good authority that wit's basically impossible to tell by looking at the top if it's veneer or not. This was tested on the mylespaul forum years ago. As you say, pickups out is the only way to tell.

This is mine during it's time spent in USA. Was found in a small guitar shop in Ohio, that's who took these photos. I don't know much else about it being over there.
I remember arguing with somebody at faber / tokai Germany that solid topped ls120s didn't exist. Some people know everything, right? Ze Chermans.

 

[Graeme]

I have an 81 120 with a solid top. I have it on good authority that wit's basically impossible to tell by looking at the top if it's veneer or not. This was tested on the mylespaul forum years ago. As you say, pickups out is the only way to tell.

This is mine during it's time spent in USA. Was found in a small guitar shop in Ohio, that's who took these photos. I don't know much else about it being over there.
I remember arguing with somebody at faber / tokai Germany that solid topped ls120s didn't exist. Some people know everything, right? Ze Chermans.

Nice! I have an LS75/80 with a quilt top and had quite convinced myself that it was solid until I realised that the top had a centre join but the maple cap underneath did not! So, no you can't tell without pulling the pickups. But that's the point so who cares. It's a great guitar and looks gorgeous. I'm sure your LS120 is even nicer.

 

[Sigmania]

Plenty of examples of solid tops, but you have to follow the grain around the corner into the pickup cavities and also follow the alignment of the center seam around the edge into the cavity.

Look here:

1978-1985 vintage LS solid flametop gallery

 

[chuckyz2]

I have an 81 120 with a solid top. I have it on good authority that wit's basically impossible to tell by looking at the top if it's veneer or not. This was tested on the mylespaul forum years ago. As you say, pickups out is the only way to tell.

This is mine during it's time spent in USA. Was found in a small guitar shop in Ohio, that's who took these photos. I don't know much else about it being over there.
I remember arguing with somebody at faber / tokai Germany that solid topped ls120s didn't exist. Some people know everything, right? Ze Chermans.

From that pic, which is not good enough to determine if it is solid, It appears more to have a thin veneer on top of the solid maple cap. Which is what most, if not all LS-120's do have. I have yet to see a money shot of a LS-120 with a solid maple cap. They are listed in brochures as having a veneer.
A money shot is when you have a hi definition picture of a closeup showing the grain from the top going into the cavity.

 

[moodyedge]

From that pic, which is not good enough to determine if it is solid, It appears more to have a thin veneer on top of the solid maple cap. Which is what most, if not all LS-120's do have. I have yet to see a money shot of a LS-120 with a solid maple cap. They are listed in brochures as having a veneer.
A money shot is when you have a hi definition picture of a closeup showing the grain from the top going into the cavity.

I have had this discussion with Faber Germany who also argued that solid topped 120s didn't exist.

 

[moodyedge]

Nice! I have an LS75/80 with a quilt top and had quite convinced myself that it was solid until I realised that the top had a centre join but the maple cap underneath did not! So, no you can't tell without pulling the pickups. But that's the point so who cares. It's a great guitar and looks gorgeous. I'm sure your LS120 is even nicer.

Exactly.

No big deal, makes zero difference to how it sounds or plays. I am not selling it and advertising it as something it isn't.

 

[moodyedge]

From that pic, which is not good enough to determine if it is solid, It appears more to have a thin veneer on top of the solid maple cap. Which is what most, if not all LS-120's do have. I have yet to see a money shot of a LS-120 with a solid maple cap. They are listed in brochures as having a veneer.
A money shot is when you have a hi definition picture of a closeup showing the grain from the top going into the cavity.

Not that easy to capture because the flames quite subtle so I tweaked the contrast..... but its there.

I bought it off villager a decade ago and he knows what he is talking about.

 

[chuckyz2]

Not that easy to capture because the flames quite subtle so I tweaked the contrast..... but its there.

I bought it off villager a decade ago and he knows what he is talking about.

Like I said on your thread. Looks like an LS-150.
In my opinion it is too nice to be a 120.
Somebody screwed up somewhere. Either at Tokai,
or previous owner/seller.
Villager seems quite knowledgeable.
Whoever bought it new knows for sure.
But why Tokai would sell a guitar with 150 specs as a
120, makes me wonder what checks they have to pass
or fail to be classified as one or the other.

 

[moodyedge]

Like I said on your thread. Looks like an LS-150.
In my opinion it is too nice to be a 120.
Somebody screwed up somewhere. Either at Tokai,
or previous owner/seller.
Villager seems quite knowledgeable.
Whoever bought it new knows for sure.
But why Tokai would sell a guitar with 150 specs as a
120, makes me wonder what checks they have to pass
or fail to be classified as one or the other.

It certainly has some character. I wish I could find out more about it being in Ohio. Clocked up a few miles in its time.

 

[Jlee]

That’s a looker!

 

[J.E.M.]

Not that easy to capture because the flames quite subtle so I tweaked the contrast..... but its there.

I bought it off villager a decade ago and he knows what he is talking about.

You're looking for grain that connects from the face into the cavity... the pictures need to be of the end grain - the top and bottom of the cavities not the sides - connecting end grain to the face is the test for a solid top, not looking for a "thin line" at the side of the cavity, please post more pics.

 

[Sigmania]

Look closely at this picture. You can see the darker fibers continuing.

 

[moodyedge]

You're looking for grain that connects from the face into the cavity... the pictures need to be of the end grain - the top and bottom of the cavities not the sides - connecting end grain to the face is the test for a solid top, not looking for a "thin line" at the side of the cavity, please post more pics.

BS. The grain runs from left to right and colour/flame variations are clearly visible due to the fact there is a big hole cut into the wood.

Even Stevie Wonder can see that.

As already explained, I bought it from the go to guy in Europe who sold it as a solid top. I have also confirmed this myself.

 

[Sigmania]

Definitely solid. And beautiful.

 

[J.E.M.]

Go ahead and explain how one could judge whether the seam on the face of that top lines up all the way down to the mahogany from the view you've provided of the side of the cavity, it's a simple concept and I'm sorry you have so much invested in being correct, it may be a solid top but there are things you do not understand to be calling BS.

 

[moodyedge]

Go ahead and explain how one could judge whether the seam on the face of that top lines up all the way down to the mahogany from the view you've provided of the side of the cavity, it's a simple concept and I'm sorry you have so much invested in being correct, it may be a solid top but there are things you do not understand to be calling BS.

It's a solid top, big deal. Others seem more invested in making claims and demanding evidence.

 

[kerosene_strat]

Solid top LS-120's were most definitely produced. I had an ebay account in the early 2000's called japguitars_fx. I imported guitars, pedals and space echo's from Tokyo into the UK every week. I had standing orders with most of the bigger Tokyo music shops, they emailed me if anything vintage came into stock. I don't claim to know everything but I had lawsuit era Tokai's coming over every week and there is a lot of misinformation floating around the net from people who haven't even owned the guitars they talk about. My 81 Love Rock LS-200 had double ring tuners which I understand is very odd. Back then I don't think things were always particularly definite. I like to keep an open mind and belief that I can always learn new things about the older Japanese gear.

 

[chuckyz2]

It's a solid top, big deal. Others seem more invested in making claims and demanding evidence.

Being interested and wanting to see the evidence is hardly making claims or demanding.
It's sad that you see it that way or take offense in. In my case, I was just concerned as there are a lot of fakes out there.
Not to mention that 120's with solid tops are very rare. Which makes them even more interesting.
I can't speak for everyone, but there were no ill intentions in my questions. I never claimed to be an expert.
I never said anything rude or insulting. I assume I am one the "others" you are referring to.
So I thought I should respond. I love these guitars and am just trying to learn all I can about them.
Money shots are easy identifying proof of if a guitar is solid or not. Poor pictures are not.
You should be grateful that you learned something through all of this and have the decency not to bash on fellow
collectors who are interested in your guitar and that you didn't get scammed. So, you don't care that it is solid?
No big deal? lol. You crack me up. It's a big deal. Yet you are making it hard for me to be happy for you. But I am.
Envious even.