Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Discussion for acoustic guitars from Tokai

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Sigmania
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Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:51 pm

Looks like it could be Brazilian to me. Crack in the back. Wondering if it’s solid rather than a laminate because of that crack along the grain. Would be rare for a piece of laminate to do that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-1975-Cat ... 632-2357-0

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Last edited by Sigmania on Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

mdvineng
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Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by mdvineng » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:24 am

If I remember correctly, the tops are solid but the back is veneered. A 1200 from 75 would be one hell of a top end box.

Just read on another webpage written by a guy in Japan that in the 70's anything above the 700 models would be solid construction. The range topped out at ce2500.
Last edited by mdvineng on Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tokai VSB80 OF, Michael Kelly Patriot custom, Epiphone Elite SG & EB3. 8)

Sigmania
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Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:13 am

Seller describes the body as solid. Interesting…



Used 1975 Cat's Eyes / Tokai CE-1200 NAT

MIJ Vintage Acoustic Guitar Dreadnought


SPEC

Body: Solid Spruce Top, 3pc Solid Rosewood Side & Back
Neck: Unknown
Fingerboard: Unknown
Weight: Unknown
Serial Number: Unknown
Color: NAT
Neck Shape: Unknown
Model Year: 1975
Binding: Martin D35 Type (Herringbone)
Inlay: Torch Inlay
Position Markers: Diamond Inlay
Peg: USA Glover


CONDITION

Frets seem to be remained: 70%. (Dressed).

Neck is straight.

Truss rod works fine.

There is about 10cm crack repaired mark on the center of the body back but no problem for playing (see photos).

The guitar may have some other signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended.

Please understand that this is a vintage item.

Ready to play when you get.

COMES WITH AN ORIGINAL HARDSHELL CASE.
(This is for shipping. It may have some damages.)
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

Sigmania
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Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:02 am

Any idea how to date these? Is there a serial number on the neck block?

Also, whose signature is that on the paper label?

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That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

mdvineng
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Posts: 922
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Location: manchester

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by mdvineng » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:33 am

Tokai VSB80 OF, Michael Kelly Patriot custom, Epiphone Elite SG & EB3. 8)

Sigmania
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Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:11 am

Thanks. More people speculating unfortunately.

Would be great to one day get real documented information about the relationship of Tokai, Martin, Sigma & Cats Eyes. Lots of hypotheses but almost no solid info that I have found.

On my “to do” to list, translate as many catalogs as I can. Hefty goal but would be worthwhile.
Last edited by Sigmania on Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

mdvineng
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Posts: 922
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Location: manchester

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by mdvineng » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:53 pm

Tokai VSB80 OF, Michael Kelly Patriot custom, Epiphone Elite SG & EB3. 8)

Sigmania
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
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Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:07 pm

Ahhhhh. Note the fret markers known as “Cat’s Eyes”. Maybe this is the origin of the brand?

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Last edited by Sigmania on Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

Sigmania
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Posts: 1986
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Location: NC, USA

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:31 pm

Jacaranda or what most people also call Brazilian:

https://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p153600
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

luis
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Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by luis » Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:04 pm

I have read this has a Truss rod? I always though Martind implemented that around 1981, am I rigth? Vintage Martins and close copies have an enforcement at the end of teh neck rigth into de box. Any one can shed any light?

Sigmania
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Posts: 1986
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Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:18 pm

Good question. I wonder if it was an automatic/cut & paste response. That seller sells a lot of guitars.

“Frets seem to be remained: 70%. (Dressed).Neck is straight.Truss rod works fine.There is about 10cm crack repaired mark on the center of the body back but no problem for playing (see photos).The guitar may have some other signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended.Please understand that this is a vintage item.Ready to play when you get.”
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

mdvineng
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Posts: 922
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Location: manchester

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by mdvineng » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:37 am

Page 15 onwards has some information
https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/ ... catalogue/
Tokai VSB80 OF, Michael Kelly Patriot custom, Epiphone Elite SG & EB3. 8)

Sigmania
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Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:51 am

I just bought a copy of that 1979 catalog from Japan. Looking forward to getting it translated.

The scans on line are blurry when you enlarge them and that makes them hard to translate.

I also got the 1975 catalog. Looking forward to getting them in hand.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

mdvineng
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Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:01 am
Location: manchester

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by mdvineng » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:00 pm

Yep, the blur is a pita.
Tokai VSB80 OF, Michael Kelly Patriot custom, Epiphone Elite SG & EB3. 8)

Sigmania
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Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Cat’s Eyes CE1200 Brazilian?

Post by Sigmania » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:18 am

My translation of the 1975 catalog that I just got and was able to scan at higher resolution than what is available on line using Google Translate:

CE 1200. Romania ¥ 120,000
Front plate: Spruce veneer,
Back & side plate: Rose veneer,
Neck: Mahogany,
Fingerboard: Ebony,
Tuners: Grover,
Strings: Marquis Medium,
Body Purfling : Herringbone

*Note the use of "veneer" may not actually mean laminate. I think this may be a an issue of words not translating directly. I say this because in translating the 1982 Tokai catalog that they call the mahogany body on Love Rocks a veneer, which is not the way that I would use that word. So I think it may not mean laminate?

*Also note that Tokai differentiates Jacaranda and Rosewood.... This is a huge debate among guitarists whether jacaranda is actually Brazilian Rosewood. If you look at the catalog shots, the Jacaranda guitars are clearly darker on the sides than the Rosewood guitars. So by Rosewood do they mean Brazilian or Indian? The guitar in this post has the coloration of Brazilian based on the photos, but does not have the unusual figuring I would expect in Brazilian Rosewood, so it is hard to tell. Open for debate.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R Springy, '81 TE120 Breezy, '82 LS120 Love Rock, '82 JB50 Jazz Sounds

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