Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

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Puck Luck
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Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Puck Luck » Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:59 pm

Hey all, new here. Bought a Burny guitar and I've learned a lot researching but still not sure as far as pinning the year and model down. These no serial guitars annoy me. lol I think this sg might be an 89/90 judging by the winged truss rod cover but I'm not sure of the exact model either. Any experts know from the pickup routing and tenon? It has silver caps as well which i haven't really seen anyone talk about in my searches, usually green or yellow. I started a site to document the restoration with pics. I've got a bunch of guitars recently I plan on restoring and selling just trying to get as much info as possible so thanks for any help!

http://guitarrestos.com/179-2/
Last edited by Puck Luck on Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Puck Luck
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG please

Post by Puck Luck » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:55 am

This is what it has to make it easier...

thin poly finish
no serial on headstock or pickup cavities
winged bell truss rod cover
neck joins body at 22nd fret
neck tenon makes it to the bottom of the pickup cavity
vh-1 stickers on pickup rings
nickel baseplate pickups with grey wire
8.2k neck and 8.08k bridge resistance
(Took the covers off and it has alnico magnets! now I'm confused, everyone says ceramics)
silver capacitors in control cavity, no date codes on pots

My best guess from what i've read is it's a 1990 rsg-60-63. What do you guys think?
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Last edited by Puck Luck on Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Puck Luck
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG please

Post by Puck Luck » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:50 pm

Here is the other Burny I purchased which is a white one. It's a little older, I'm thinking 87 maybe?
The control cavity is the same shape as the red one but the pickup cavities and neck joint is not.

Stats on this guy...
thin poly finish
no serial on headstock or pickup cavities
bell shaped truss rod cover
neck joins body at 22nd fret
neck tenon makes it to the bottom of the pickup cavity but is fitted and radiused unlike the newer one
brass baseplate pickups with grey wire
7.99k neck and 7.908k bridge resistance
(took the covers off, ceramic magnets so must be VH3 as expected!)
red capacitors in control cavity, no date codes on pots

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PermissionToLand
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by PermissionToLand » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:22 pm

I think you're right about the red one; it's a 1990 RSG-60. The alnico mags are interesting, indeed. Maybe they went ceramic later on?

I also agree the white one is earlier. I've seen a few '87s with a serial in the neck pickup cavity, but that may have only been done by one manufacturer. It's bad enough they didn't serialize these things, but the multiple manufacturers makes them an enigma. I have a theory that Fujigen made the RSGs with deeper beveling and the 22nd fret neck joint from 1982-1988, while the shallow beveling and 19th fret joint were Matsumoku.

Can I see a pic of the white one's heel?

Sigmania
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Sigmania » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:45 am

I assume you have seen this page?

https://solidguitar.fandom.com/wiki/Burny_RSG

The Burny RSG models were their new line of SG copies introduced as part of the Revival Series in 1982, replacing the FSG. Though the official catalog specs call out a two-piece body, they often used three pieces. Unfortunately, the RSG never got the most desirable 1985-1987 VH-1 pickups, only the post-1987 VH-1s with different specs.

RSGs built from 1982-1986 were manufactured by either Matsumoku or Fujigen, and while some early 1982 models had serial numbers stamped on the back of the headstock, the vast majority have no serial numbers. The only way to date guitars from this era is by pot codes; underneath "M500kOhm", there are two digits and a letter. The first digit denotes the year and the second denotes month. In 1987, production largely shifted to Dyna Gakki until the Revival Series was discontinued in 1992. Dyna builds have a serial number ink-stamped into one of the pickup cavities, and the first digit denotes the year. However, that practice seems to have ended with the redesign in 1989 and once again, the guitars had no serial numbers.

The RSG returned in 2003 as part of the Classics Series, but the Japanese made RSG-95 would be short-lived. The RSG-95 was likely produced by Tokai. Models with "Super Grade" on the headstock were made in China.



And...


RSG-60/65 '63 Model (1989-1991)

This model is the same as the RSG-75, but was re-named RSG-60 to reflect a price drop, allowing room for the new vibrola option to be slotted in as the new RSG-75. With the addition of VH-1 humbuckers in 1990, a sticker was added to mimic Gibson's use of a sticker on guitars equipped with Tim Shaw PAF replicas. In 1991, it was re-named RSG-65, to reflect a price increase.

1989-1990: 60,000 Yen MSRP (RSG-60)
1991: 65,000 Yen MSRP (RSG-65)

Body:

Beveled 2-pc African Mahogany body
Deeper cutaway bevels
Rear cutaway bevels
Angled heel
Polyurethane finish

Neck:

1-pc quartersawn African Mahogany
U shape profile
Set-in construction
Joins body at 22nd fret
Indian Rosewood fretboard
Acrylic trapezoid inlays
9.84" radius
Large Open Book headstock
Inlaid Mother of Pearl Burny logo
Inlaid Mother of Pearl split crown
Maple veneer
17o pitch
22 frets
24 3/4" scale
Bone nut
1 11/16" nut width


Binding:

Neck, single-ply
Frets over binding

Electronics:

Two VH-3 humbuckers (1989)
Ceramic magnets
~8.0k Ohms D.C. resistance
Two VH-1 humbuckers (1990-1991)
Alnico ??? magnets
~8.2k Ohms D.C. resistance
Black/Gold "VH-1" stickers on rings

Switchcraft 3-way switch
2 Vol, 2 Tone
500k pots
Switchcraft output jack

Hardware:

Nickel hardware
Gotoh tuning machines
12:1 ratio
Yellow Keystone buttons
Single ring
Kluson-style design
4-ply "Angel Wing" pickguard
Bell shaped truss rod cover
2-ply b/w
Narrow bevel
2 screws
"Wings"
Black Reflector knobs w/ pointers
ABR-style Tune-O-Matic bridge
Stopbar tailpiece

Finishes:

Cherry Red (CR)
Black (BL)
White (H, 1989)
Snow White (SW, 1990-1991)

Last edited by Sigmania on Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:22 am, edited 7 times in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R V Neck Springy, '81 TE120 Arabesque Breezy, '82 LS120 Solid Flame, '82 JB45R Jazz Sounds, ‘84 ST70 Gold Star Maple Cap

Sigmania
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Sigmania » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:06 am

Is the color of your VH1 sticker black & gold on the red one?
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R V Neck Springy, '81 TE120 Arabesque Breezy, '82 LS120 Solid Flame, '82 JB45R Jazz Sounds, ‘84 ST70 Gold Star Maple Cap

Sigmania
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Posts: 3490
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Sigmania » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:24 am

So, maybe the white one is 1989 if it is "white" and not "snow white" and those are VH3s?

From above:

Two VH-3 humbuckers (1989)
Ceramic magnets
~8.0k Ohms D.C. resistance


and

White (H, 1989)
Last edited by Sigmania on Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R V Neck Springy, '81 TE120 Arabesque Breezy, '82 LS120 Solid Flame, '82 JB45R Jazz Sounds, ‘84 ST70 Gold Star Maple Cap

Sigmania
Donating Member
Posts: 3490
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Sigmania » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:28 am

On the red one, something likely changed based on old solder on the pots? Pickups maybe? And the caps likely changed.

Image

And is that shielding paint in the neck cavity? Did you take pictures before painting that on?

Image
Last edited by Sigmania on Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:55 am, edited 6 times in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R V Neck Springy, '81 TE120 Arabesque Breezy, '82 LS120 Solid Flame, '82 JB45R Jazz Sounds, ‘84 ST70 Gold Star Maple Cap

Sigmania
Donating Member
Posts: 3490
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Sigmania » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:50 am

Here is another RSG60/65 to compare it with. Looks like original untouched wiring.

Image

https://reverb.com/item/50558872-burny- ... igits-mojo

and yours:

Image
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R V Neck Springy, '81 TE120 Arabesque Breezy, '82 LS120 Solid Flame, '82 JB45R Jazz Sounds, ‘84 ST70 Gold Star Maple Cap

Sigmania
Donating Member
Posts: 3490
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: NC, USA

Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Sigmania » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:57 am

Here is some good info on villager's page on RLGs and FLGs.

http://www.japanguitars.co.uk/burny%20info.html

Note the dates on the RLG bell shaped truss rod cover with "wings" similar to yours.

Image

And your adjustment screws on your pickups are slot head screws.

Again, from villager's site:

1989-1996 VH1 pickup. Metal coloured baseplate, grey wire high output. Surrounds as 82-87, but high adjustment screws Phillips headed and not slotted as on Gibsons and earlier Burnys. 8.40 front and 8.60 back. All black or Zebra bobbins. Nickel covers (gold) on Customs.

You may want to message villager through his web site?

http://www.japanguitars.co.uk/burny%20info.html

Image
Last edited by Sigmania on Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
That’s alright ‘cause I still got my guitar… ‘79 LS80 GT Reborn, '79 ST100 Springy, '81 LS100S Hog, '81 ST70R Slab Springy, ‘81 ST80R V Neck Springy, '81 TE120 Arabesque Breezy, '82 LS120 Solid Flame, '82 JB45R Jazz Sounds, ‘84 ST70 Gold Star Maple Cap

Puck Luck
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:09 pm
Location: Centereach,NY
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by Puck Luck » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:36 pm

Wow Sigmania and PermissiontoLand, thank you so much for the help. Yes, I've seen the sg wiki and villagers site, both super helpful. Just hard for me to keep track of all the info and differences! There was no serial in the neck pocket on the red one before I started shielding it unfortunately. I don't think I took a pic but I'll double check, nope don't have it. It's a different route than the white one. the tenon is raised and not flush with the holes for the pickup screws like on the white one. Looks like more of a matsumoku pickup route from matsumoku les pauls I've found. The stickers are gold and black on the vh1's yes. The heels are identical between the two guitars.
Image

PermissionToLand
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by PermissionToLand » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:16 pm

Sigmania wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:45 am
I assume you have seen this page?

https://solidguitar.fandom.com/wiki/Burny_RSG
I made that page. :D

It's very much still a work in progress, which is why I'm trolling forums for info right now.

PermissionToLand
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by PermissionToLand » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:31 pm

I'd previously heard that the more desirable VH-1s were 1985-1987. I'd also heard that the later ones were ceramic. But just now I've come across this post:

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/the-u ... st-2371192

He says that braided wire ended in 1989, which makes me think the change to ceramic may have coincided with the change in wire. But that still doesn't explain yours. My best guess is that you got a transitional pickup, or the change to ceramic did not coincide with the wire and came later.
Sigmania wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:24 am
So, maybe the white one is 1989 if it is "white" and not "snow white" and those are VH3s?

From above:

Two VH-3 humbuckers (1989)
Ceramic magnets
~8.0k Ohms D.C. resistance


and

White (H, 1989)
Edit: I believe they are the same color. It looks like they just changed the name to Snow White in 1990 to distinguish it from Cream White.

As far as the caps, they look original to me. I've seen some that are yellowish and others that are silver. I don't know if I've seen the brownish-red but they could be stock, too. From what I've gathered so far, they were produced by Dyna Gakki and possibly also Fujigen around this time. Specs seem to differ quite a bit between manufacturers.
Last edited by PermissionToLand on Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PermissionToLand
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Re: Help me Identify my Burny SG's please

Post by PermissionToLand » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:40 pm

Puck Luck wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:36 pm
Wow Sigmania and PermissiontoLand, thank you so much for the help. Yes, I've seen the sg wiki and villagers site, both super helpful. Just hard for me to keep track of all the info and differences! There was no serial in the neck pocket on the red one before I started shielding it unfortunately. I don't think I took a pic but I'll double check, nope don't have it. It's a different route than the white one. the tenon is raised and not flush with the holes for the pickup screws like on the white one. Looks like more of a matsumoku pickup route from matsumoku les pauls I've found. The stickers are gold and black on the vh1's yes. The heels are identical between the two guitars.
The white one could be Fujigen, but that's purely conjecture based on my theory that the '63 models with a 22nd fret joint prior to 1989 were made by Fujigen and the ones with 19th fret joints were made by Matsumoku (and maybe also Kasuga in 1987). After 1989, they seemed much more consistent, which makes me think Dyna was making the majority of them after 1989 (or they simply enforced more consistency between manufacturers).

As far as tenon and routing design, I have no idea at this point. It's hard to find good pictures of each style for comparison, and the ability to correlate info with Les Pauls is limited by design differences, obviously.

All of the info on my wiki is in a constant state of flux right now, so take it with a grain of salt.

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