Help me identify this ST-80(?)

Homeras · Jul 17, 2022

Hello,
got recently this beauty (not fan of a relics but this particular one has this "something", imo

So it has almost all the features of a st-80 (V (soft) neck, E pus, really thin nitro and a 1 piece looking to be sen ash body), reminds me a lot of my former 1978 ST100.
Bridge has been changed as also the neck plate, pickguard, jackplate.
No serial or nr on the body except "YS" in the control cavity. Any ideas?

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

I wonder why someone would replace the neckplate containing the serial number??

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

And the handwritten “YS” is weird. I’ve seen that on a guitar from the Nagano factory (which were lower models typically). It normally means yellow sunburst, 3 tone, of course. But yours is the 2 tone burst, GS. Head scratcher.

I can’t see from your pictures, but is there a code stamped in the neck pickup cavity or in the control compartment or in the neck pocket? Faint probably.

Homeras · Jul 17, 2022

Yes, few mysteries here...

I'd say it's a 3 tone burst.

The Only letters/numbers on the body are those "YS". Neck has "11=15A".

Thought that the body could be from a lower model or different but super thin nitro and 1 piece would match 80/100.

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

Interesting. You seem to be finding some cool guitars. Hope you are staying safe amid the hostilities.

The body and neck are obviously Tokai. And one piece sen is great. If it is actually nitro that would suggest ST80+.

I'm just trying to figure out the age now. What does the headstock look like? Springy decal?

Has the V neck with rosewood board seen on ST80s and ST100s (possibly ST120s?).

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

The 3 tone, YS, finish would have red between the yellow and the black.

Yours looks like some of the actual first 3 tone Fenders where the red faded out, but on the Tokai finishes, the red is stable.

Actual 1960 Strat

https://guitarpoint.de/product/1960-fender-stratocaster-3-tone-sunburst/

Again, a mystery.

It's a beautiful guitar whatever it is.

Look at the thread on the ST120. It had a handwritten "GS". Probably DiMarzios? 1982 model.

Here is the link.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26153&hilit=st120

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24894

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

For comparison, the GS finish on my 1979 ST100GS

Yours has way more of the dark/transition paint/stain but it is not red. Interesting guitar.

Homeras · Jul 17, 2022

Thank you, still fine here (let's say so..

Here one can see the 3 tone burst more, though on the pickguard side it's more 2..

Headstock, with removed Tokai logo, obviously

Neck is a really nice plain sawn hard maple, very stable.

Oh, I do recall this owned now by Cliff 120

It is an intersting guitar indeed!

Thank You, Sigmania for your great feedback

!
Lovely 1979 ST100 btw

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

OK. So that’s a better picture. If it’s actually nitrocellulose I would feel comfortable calling it an ST 80. But it is curious that you can’t see any production codes on the body. It’s obviously a Tokai body. Very interesting.

And thanks.

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

And someone needs to not go anywhere near a guitar with a sander...

If it was my guitar, I would try to find someone good at restoration and reverse what they did. Just my opinion. 8)

Sigmania · Jul 17, 2022

I enlarged the body pic... Does it say "Final Prospec" on the saddles?

Peter Mac · Jul 17, 2022

Hi guys,

To me the finish looks closer to YS than GS albiet the red is quite faint.
The neck is from 1980 and most likely ST-80 [ hex truss rod, no skunk stripe, black side position markers, 'A' on neck code, soft V profile ]
The body is most likely Tokai due to the specific routing of the pickup cavity. If there is body code, for 1980 it should be in the front pickup cavity.
I would suggest acetone and Q-tips to gently peel away the paint and see if the code is there.
It should read 11=15 YS A. - Anything else is not a matching body.
I find the change of neckplate a warning sign as 1978, 1979 and 1980 were all the same size but 1981-up were 'Fender sized' (larger)
This means the neck holes would not line up with body holes and would have to be filled and re-drilled for a different body.
Possibly photos of the side of the neck and the base may shed some light.
Would like to see the 'replacement neckplate as the body holes look very original.
I do own a 1980 ST-80 myself and it is my No1 strat, although it has been refinished in Gibson 1952 Goldtop Gold.
Neck is '12=1A', body has ' YS A' however the number is too blurred to make out.
regards
Peter Mac

Sigmania · Jul 18, 2022

Thanks Peter!

Can you help me understand what years Tokai made a V neck with a rosewood board?

My 1981 ST80R has a soft V neck, black dot markers, hex adjustment, (S/N 1013537), and I think felixcatus has one as well?

1979 beige foldout catalog does not specify fretboard, but says the ST80 has a V shaped neck.

1980 foldout catalog says for the ST80 neck: maple one piece V shape, rosewood fingerboard also available.

1981 "Flat Top" catalog says that the '64 Oldie Model ST80/85N and ST100 have a rosewood fingerboard V neck.

Spring 1982 catalog says rosewood fingerboard on a V neck for the ST80R & ST120R.

Homeras · Jul 20, 2022

Peter Mac said:
Hi guys,

To me the finish looks closer to YS than GS albiet the red is quite faint.
The neck is from 1980 and most likely ST-80 [ hex truss rod, no skunk stripe, black side position markers, 'A' on neck code, soft V profile ]
The body is most likely Tokai due to the specific routing of the pickup cavity. If there is body code, for 1980 it should be in the front pickup cavity.
I would suggest acetone and Q-tips to gently peel away the paint and see if the code is there.
It should read 11=15 YS A. - Anything else is not a matching body.
I find the change of neckplate a warning sign as 1978, 1979 and 1980 were all the same size but 1981-up were 'Fender sized' (larger)
This means the neck holes would not line up with body holes and would have to be filled and re-drilled for a different body.
Possibly photos of the side of the neck and the base may shed some light.
Would like to see the 'replacement neckplate as the body holes look very original.
I do own a 1980 ST-80 myself and it is my No1 strat, although it has been refinished in Gibson 1952 Goldtop Gold.
Neck is '12=1A', body has ' YS A' however the number is too blurred to make out.
regards
Peter Mac

Thank you, Peter!

I checked and there is no code on the body, only the "YS". Acetone does melt the lacquer in the cavities though it's rather thick layer(s) of it
Yes, it's so strange that the neck plate was replaced. Holes in the neck, body and plate do match exactly. Body and neck make a tight fit.
Few pics of the neck and body joint. Believe that the change of color on the neck is due to the relic job done on the body.

Sigmania · Jul 20, 2022

Hmmm. That neckplate looks like the intermediate one that was used beginning in 1978 through 1980? The larger plate with the narrower hole spacing?

YS not shown as an option until the 1981 Flat Top catalog (printed late 1980?).

Then that plate changed to wider spaced holes by 1981 I believe.

So after the 1980 catalog was printed and before the change in the neckplate.

Looking like maybe late 1980?

Neck is of an ST80 or ST100 (there is a thread on here of a V neck ST100R). From earlier in 1980.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26267&hilit=St100+rosewood

Body is of an ST80 or ST100.

Without gold hardware, I would guess:

1980 ST80YSR?

Still a mystery why there is no serial number on that neckplate... Aftermarket hardware switch?? Gold>nickel? Quite the mystery.

Shown in the 1981 Flat Top catalog.

Note truss rod adjustment in this catalog on the ST80YSR. I have a 1981 ST80MRR with the hex adjustment.

Sigmania · Jul 20, 2022

Peter,

Were there any of these plates in 1978 that did not have a serial number stamped on them?

Any necks from this period that were not fretboard stamped for some reason? Factory replacements?

Definitely a head scratcher.

1978 ST80 with the serial number stamped on this type of plate for comparison:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/37630238-tokai-st-80-springy-sound-1978-black

Sigmania · Jul 20, 2022

One possibility is that it is an ST 100 and somebody switched out the hardware? That gold starts to wear off and maybe they decided to switch?

What does the stamping say on the saddles on the bridge? It almost looks like it says final prospec?

Just wondering what was switched as far as hardware goes?

Homeras · Jul 20, 2022

Sigmania said:
One possibility is that it is an ST 100 and somebody switched out the hardware? That gold starts to wear off and maybe they decided to switch?

What does the stamping say on the saddles on the bridge? It almost looks like it says final prospec?

Just wondering what was switched as far as hardware goes?

Sorry, you did ask what the saddles say. They show "REVIVAL" and "F.S.R.G". Believe Fernandes?

Yes, wonder why changed.

Tuners are "TOKAI" and are nickel.

Sigmania · Jul 20, 2022

Hmmmm. Tokai made Fernandes guitars…

Definitely something to look into.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26086&hilit=Earliest+Springys

Sigmania said:
Fernandes timeline:

1973-74 Traditional Type "Fernandes" Logo --- Kawai --- conducted by Mr. Omote and Mr. Shiino
1975-77 Spaghetti Type "Fernandes" Logo --- Kawai/Tokai --- conducted by Mr. Omote
1978-79 Stone Type "Fernandes" Logo --- Tokai
1980-81 Stone Type "Fernandes" Logo --- Changed to 22F --- Tokai
1981-90 Revival Series Logo --- Probably Tokai
2003 Revival Second Generation --- No idea about the MFG[/b]

http://www.music-trade.co.jp/fenandeshistory.html

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26086&hilit=earliest+springys

Homeras · Jul 20, 2022

Seller mentioned that the bridge and jack were changed.

Help me identify this ST-80(?)

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