How to grade the Tokai ST pre 1982

ST40 (42 & 45) Trapezoid tuners (same as fender silver series MIJ 1990 to 1996/7) No soldering plate. U pickups. Alder body. Period pickguard. Period string tree. Period models. All gloss finish

ST50 as above. upgraded, soldering plate. Vintage type tuners no stripe.

ST55N as above. Upgrade, N Natural finish or matching headstock colour options. 5000 yen extra cost on the ST50 model. (Note GOLD finish 55 and 50 grade examples, not sure why) (note, for example the lake placid blue tokai version is not not a 55 model as the colour code sits in the ST or TST grade 50 description box in the catalogs with Candy Apple red so “metallic” is not a 55 option upgrade, see catalog colour codes and specifications grades)

ST60 as above. Upgraded to E stamped pickups. ST “Tokai” stripe on tuners, later TST “Deluxe” stripe.

ST65N as above. N Natural finish option. 5000 yen extra cost on the ST60.

ST80 as above (always E stamped pickups) upgrades, nitro finish. Soft V neck. Wood options, Sen,Swamp,ash,alder. (Note only the TST goldstar sound at 80 grade has VS1 pickups all spring sound ST 80 models is E stamped pre 1982/3)

ST100 as above. Upgrades, gold. hardware , Dimarzio VS1 pickups after 1982. Before 1982 E stamped.

ST120 made to order only. Available from the 1st of January 1982 only.

Good info, but not all ST100s had gold hardware, and not all had flamed necks.

Again yes you are right. I assume that the buyer might of requested the silver hardware at this grade as this is the only grade with options from the factory. The ST120 is made to order so again I would assume the ST120 was only made when a customer ordered it at tokai (there is no internet in 1982) so both models would often have different specifications depending on the customer. Also the grades 80 100 and 120 are set price with options so you wouldn’t need to pay any extra yen for any specification changes at this grade.

FenderDan1 said:

ST40 Trapezoid tuners (same as fender silver series MIJ 1990 to 1996/7) No soldering plate. U pickups. Alder body. Period pickguard. Period string tree. Period models. All gloss finish

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But isn't the -40 a much later model? First catalog appearance is in 1987, as the TST-40, with budget tuners and ceramic pickups. The early entry level ST models were ST-42/-45 (the designation/price changed in 1980), in catalogs från 1978 to 1981, though not pictured and in spec sheets only for the last two years. The two I've had were identical to ST-50s except for the Fender F-style tuners (same as on lower-end Silver Stars) and had sen bodies.

1978 catalog:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/5DHejQ2.jpg[/img]

Again totally right but as the ST40 replaces those grades it’s just a general guide so not to ad all the confusion that’s out there. See my post on “pickups” for a full pickup and explanation.

Re tuners. ST-60 and above have the “deluxe” stripe on the TST later and “tokai” stripe on the ST higher models to.

The F tuners should be on any “current” models, be aware for example the squier SQ 1983/4 is not a reissue it’s the “current” model that Dan Smith is still configuring as the new fender strats, we see the large headstock disappear around 1984 firmly but japan are still using it as the “current” model. If you look at the 1983/4 Japan fender catalog you’ll see the SST/JV “traditional” models (Japan fender never ever call it a “reissue” because of the launch of the AVRI which is advertised as a “reissue” so they could not use the term as it would confuse the customer)

Tokai did get it right 90% and the F tuners are used on the silver star as the “current” fender model (be careful it’s not a reissue at this point in japan or fender USA as explained above, as a result tokai used F tuners on other models outside the normal “traditional” models.

USA “AVRI” (Reissue)
Mexico “classic” in later years
Japan “traditional”
Japan “current” models still being made at fender USA, still small numbers of the large headstock from 1982 so Japan would copy this at R&D then build then sell so they needed time but you would say that the large headstock is changed firmly 1984 but the SQ japan is advertised as “current” model, as the SQ is discontinued in 1984 then it’s in line with USA not using the large headstock anymore

We must understand 2 things here. They are not all “reissues” and the terminology is changed for japan “traditional” USA AVReIssue”

Tokai Silver Star is not a reissue but the current fender model that Dan Smith is literally ripping apart so nothing is set in stone at fender USA so Japan must keep inline with straight models at the time as “current”

FenderDan1 said:

Also the grades 80 100 and 120 are set price with options so you wouldn’t need to pay any extra yen for any specification changes at this grade.

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This is interesting... Can you point me to more info on this? Would be very interested to see that.

You need to look at all of fender in this time. Dan Smith at this time is in Japan with the full R&D team, most fender USA guitars at this time are designed in Japan.

If you look at the SST 1984 catalog you’ll see “current” and “SST” the SST isn’t called a traditional at this time because it’s using up the last parts of the JV before it’s discontinued in 1984. The E serial if you look at all examples are miss matches of the JV. 50s maple necks, heel adjusted with 21 frets and a 50s radius fretboard and gotoh standard tuners also 60s rosewood necks with the same build as the JV down to contours with 60s plastics 50s plastics and so on and all body colours. You’ll also notice that some E serial are graded because again they used up the ready made ash, alder and nitro bodies 1984 to 1989. It’s also important to state that the E serial runs 1984 to 1987 as the contemporary but it’s a miss conception that all E serial are up to 1987 but as a fact neck heal dates as E run to 1989 as these miss matches

Head decal contemporary or boxer is 1984 to 1987

So the E serial miss matches is advertised as the “standard” with a larger decal like a USA decal not the spaghetti but again the specs are all vintage sieve miss match.

Some “standard” past 1987 to 1989 are head decal and heal because again they use up decals from the contemporary.

The most important thing to keep in mind is business, yes we see them as magical great fantastic guitars but again in the 1980s they are cheap versions of USA guitars so it’s business. This is all because of USA sales that did not take well to japan made and in the uk there are many many competitors, for example the marlin sidewinder out sold the squiers by a massive margin.

Again most USA guitars from R&D are coined in japan then Dan took the information back and basically closed fender. It’s because Japan had a higher quality.

We must always look at fender as a business and not japan verses USA.

Dan is a legend because of all of this but make no mistake he headed R&D in japan before the JV was ever built.

Ok. So the proof. And this is why I left Facebook and forums. The miss information is alarming at best and every one will argue the same 1984 SQ reissue but this is massively not the case. Look very close at this page. You see CST Current STratocaster and SST Squier STratocaster as “vintage” but with no designated years just grade like SST40 so they did not attach the 54 label as it’s a miss match at times to use up stock.

I’ve translated all these catalogs and collect the hard copies but trying to re-educate is a task and a half.

Look close at the specifications.

Just to ad. SQ Pickups are the 1st made at Fuji for strats and Teles. This is why the first JV is USA red or black bottom. The reason. Maxon provided the Greco Fuji pickups pre JV but fender wanted their pickups. 1982 Maxon discontinue pickups and concentrate on pedals, Fuji buy all the Maxon pickup winding equipment and start making the SQ pickup to a vintage wind and spec.

As a fact. Not all JV have USA pickups. Black bottom USA pickups have a smooth all around plate with cloth wires as standard. Fuji SQ pickups have plastic wires and little notches out of the black plate at the soldering. Reasearch will show this.

There is just so much going on but so much miss conception. By 1984 only high end japan fenders have USA pickups. All squier late 1984 are Fuji made with the Maxon equipment.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/21q1xye52m1hf47/Photo%2010-07-2022%2C%2018%2020%2006.jpg?dl=0

Look close at 2 things. SQ pickups and what the models are now actually called. It’s just very very clever marketing

I must be missing something... I was talking about Tokais...

FenderDan1 said:

You need to look at all of fender in this time. Dan Smith at this time is in Japan with the full R&D team, most fender USA guitars at this time are designed in Japan....

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The SQ is just the serial which means SQuier but again it’s not the model name , the model name is “CST” Current STratocaster. Yes the JV is the JV but it means Japan Vintage as a “traditional” so people then think the serial plate is the “series” so call it the “SQ” it’s “Current series” and the neck plate is now just the serial as SQuier



To conclude. Tokai copied so all big headstock at tokai are “Current” not a reissue.

You must talk about fender or you just don’t get the models. And as fender USA is practically closed at this time then japan are heading the builds.

The silver star is not a reissue but a “current” strat copy.

I was asking about proof that Tokai offered other hardware, etc. for no additional charge.

Unfortunately Tokai copied so fender must be talked about to understand everything that’s going on with the models, it’s a thing that we say around 1984/5 tokai got it right but before with small neck plates and guitars with a rosewood veneer and a walnut plug heal adjusted was just not right.

Fender used a salad because they realised the rod can be placed from the top, they eliminated walnut for the 60s strat as cost cuts but tokai didn’t so there are veneer boards with walnut plugs that fender did not make.

I don’t think tokai did offer these options. They just got it wrong from time to time as fender is all over the show, hence “Dan Smith”

Fender USA themselves are getting it wrong and it’s noted that a later 70s strat through to 1982 is a bit rubbish and not built well again hence Dan Smith so it’s only fair that tokai got things wrong too

FenderDan1 said:

I don’t think tokai did offer these options.

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I'm trying to understand what you were saying above that I quoted.

FenderDan1 said:

Also the grades 80 100 and 120 are set price with options so you wouldn’t need to pay any extra yen for any specification changes at this grade.

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Are you saying there was or was not an option to change hardware or features on models 80 and above?

I know there was the option to make changes for an up-charge at a certain price level, just was wondering what you were saying when you said

FenderDan1 said:

you wouldn’t need to pay any extra yen for any specification changes at this grade.

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There is no 105 or 125 so there is no price for natural. The 5 extra yen on lower models is finish as headstock match, special colours or N natural. The ST80 is set with only N option because it costs for to treat the wood before finish. ST100 is set. ST120 is a set price for any options as a custom build. Only option before 1982 is natural up to 85 grade ad 80 + 5 N Natural bit is the only option.

Lower models offer special colours. N Natural. Matching headstock options at extra cost.

80 + 5 natural only. 100 options at no extra cost. 120 full price for any options.

1982 80, 100, 120. 80 does not have a Natural option in 1982

Catalog specs. Uk flyers.

Again. Sherwood green is not extra cost, as MB isn’t, metallic is not an extra cost.

Only special colures up to 65 grade.

80, 100, 120 is a different specification. Example V neck not U.

There would not be grades if you can just keep adding 5000 extra yen for options hence the base models as grades

Also re silver hardware on ST100 models. Some people don’t like gold but wanted the flame neck. If you look at faber guitar he has a packaged ST replacement bridge so you could buy in japan all original parts as packaged at tokai. You could also specifically request so the human now comes in to play but shops would get base models. Catalogs show base models and available to buy models so again. No options at 80 unless Natural as it costs more for tokai, no extra cost on 100 or 120.

It’s cost but yes special factory orders would be available but at no extra cost so no 5000 extra. It’s a business

ST100 bridge. Packaged. Available to buy 1978/1981. Parts are available to buy as replacement.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vi1h1fkjutwwffw/Photo%2010-07-2022%2C%2020%2008%2031.png?dl=0

Edit: You made 3 additional posts that I didn’t see. This is in response to the first of the 4.

FenderDan1 said:

There is no 105 or 125 so there is no price for natural. The 5 extra yen on lower models is finish as headstock match, special colours or N natural. The ST80 is set with only N option because it costs for to treat the wood before finish. ST100 is set. ST120 is a set price for any options as a custom build. Only option before 1982 is natural up to 85 grade ad 80 + 5 N Natural bit is the only option.

Lower models offer special colours. N Natural. Matching headstock options at extra cost.

80 + 5 natural only. 100 options at no extra cost. 120 full price for any options.

1982 80, 100, 120. 80 does not have a Natural option in 1982

Catalog specs. Uk flyers.

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So are you just talking about paint colors?

And that changed over time with the biggest change in 1982 as well documented on this forum.

What I was asking about is different hardware, what is referred to as “Minor change” in the excerpt from the Spring 1982 catalog below. Note that it’s not free. 20% charge.




INFORMATION

The long-awaited appearance of 5 special colors that can be said to be the symbol of the old-fashioned model. We have started accepting special colors for ST, TE, PB, and JB series. Mania-like colors- Sonic Blue (SO), Candy Apple Red (CR), Gold Metallic (GM), Lake Placid Blue (LB), which can be said to be a symbol of the all-dish model slightly produced in the 1960s. A brilliant appearance of Metallic Green (MG). The list price is increased by 5,000 yen for all models. In addition, the reception of the same color finish of the body of the head stock part will start at the same time, and as with the special color series, all models will have a uniform price increase of 5,000 yen. In the case of head coating in the special color series, a total of 10,000 yen will be added. Delivery takes about 3 months after receiving an order. Please apply at Tokai product dealers nationwide. Assemble the parts of the Tokai Electric Guitar series to the specifications of the custom-made system.

● Minor change: A minor change model with pickups, parts, etc. For guitarists who insist on their desired personality, the Tokai Electric Guitar Project Team produces custom-made guitars only for the following items. Please note that the price will vary depending on the content of the special order, but it will be 20% or more of the basic model price. Custom-made guitars are limited to Tokai electric guitars of 80,000 yen or more.

● Special color: Finish the desired color on your model. The colors are all the colors of the Tokai Electric Guitar series. In addition, we also manufacture possible color finishes. However, it is limited to Tokai electric guitars. Please refrain from repainting the colors of other manufacturers. Please refrain from minor changes due to pickups and parts from other manufacturers.

● Orders and inquiries for custom-made guitars: Please apply or contact us through a Tokai product dealer.

We will inform you of the custom price and production period.

As of January 1, 1982, custom orders are available only for the above items.

Please be sure to apply for inquiries and orders through Tokai product dealers. We cannot accept direct orders from the head office or each sales office. Please be aware in advance.

(Note 2) About the left guitar / Currently, Tokai does not make any left guitar.