Tokai In Nagano 1980, 1981, 1982 ?

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Sigmania

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It looks like some entry level guitars were made in Nagano rather than Hamamatsu as early as 1980.

This was likely done to cut costs, or to meet increased demand, or both.

Tokais that have a "1" in the second position of the serial number are thought to have originated from Nagano rather than Hamamatsu.

So far, I have seen LS50, LS60, SS36, SS38, and ST45 guitars with these serial numbers. It is still not known who exactly made them.

The LS50 & LS60 guitars have a dowel joint similar to some Greco LPs.

This thread was started after an unusual SS38 surfaced in another thread. It has a serial number beginning with 21, but sports a rout pattern just like Ibanez and some Greco Strat copies. Both brands that are typically considered to have been built by Fujigen in this period (late 1970s)

This is my new SS38, but is this really a Tokai?

That seemed like a heck of a coincidence combined with the doweled neck joint found in inkie LPs that are visibly similar to Grecos.


Inkies in this thread:

TOKAI SILVER STAR SS40 | eBay

Tally of known examples

LS examples:
0100318
0100322
0100637
0100771
0100859
0101033
0101037
0101188
0101552
0103294
0103183
0103789
1101939
1101948
1101962
1102139

SS examples:
0100360 (Fujigen No. L807058)
1100534
1101558
1101612
1102368
1102950
2103x7x
 
Last edited:
Seems like a good idea to come up with a list of firms that could have made these guitars for both Tokai and Fujigen in Nagano and see if any of these builders move to the front of the line as far as potential culprits.


Matsumoku

Matsumoku produced guitars, or parts of guitars, for Vox, Guyatone, FujiGen Gakki, Kanda Shokai (Greco), Hoshino Gakki (Ibanez), Nippon Gakki (Yamaha), Hondo professional series (USA guitar company), Aria and Norlin (parent company of Gibson)....

Matsumoku built many early Greco guitars as well as Memphis, Vantage, Westbury, Westminster, C.G.Winner, Cutler, Lyle and Fell. Washburn Guitars contracted with Matsumoku to build some of its electric guitars and basses from 1979 through 1984.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsumoku

Matsumoku is one of the Japanese manufacturers that did not survive long after the heyday of the 1970's guitar market despite having a long tradition of quality stringed instrument craftsmanship. Matsumoku produced guitars for major manufacturers Greco, Guyatone and Yamaha. Matsumoku made Arai, Aria, Aria Pro II and Aria Diamond badges, with Aria being their primary badge for a majority of this time frame. Badged guitars known to have been made by Matsumoku include Apollo, Arita, Barclay, Burny, Capri, Columbus, Conrad, Cortez (electrics only), Country, Cutler, Dia, Domino, Electra, Epiphone, Granada, Hi Lo, Howard, Ibanez, Lindberg, Lyle, Luxor, Maxitone (this guitar differs from Tama's Maxitone badge), Mayfair, Memphis, Montclair, Pan, Pearl (electrics only), Raven, Stewart, Tempo, Univox ,Vantage, Ventura, Vision, Volhox, Washburn (in 1979 and 1980), Westbury, Westminster and Westone. Possible Matsumoku badges include: Bruno, Crestwood, Conqueror, Eros, Mako, Memphis, Orlando and Toledo.

https://www.squier-talk.com/threads/japanese-guitar-manufacturers.79896/
 
Matsumoto Musical Instrument Manufacturers Association

Matsumoto Musical Instrument Manufacturers Association is also the name of a musical instrument manufacturing cooperative, headed by Gotoh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsumoku

The Matsumoto Musicial Instrument Manufacturers Association was the organization responsible for Fresher guitars. Little is known about this association, other than it did not have larger guitar manufacturers Matsumoku or Fujigen Gakki as members. Nakai Gakki was a possible member of the association. Fresher guitars began production in 1973 by the Kyowa Shokai Company, an association member, which was also responsible for the Camel badge. It's interesting to note that Fresher guitars were eventually being produced by Chushin, which leads me to believe that they may have been an Association member along with Kyowa. The beginning production year was considered a low quality benchmark for the company. The Fresher brand continuously improved in quality until 1980.

https://www.squier-talk.com/threads/japanese-guitar-manufacturers.79896/
 
Interesting to see the Robin brand pop up in this list though not verified. Ned said that Robin was a Tokai brand. 8)


Chushin Gakki

Chushin is still in operation today in Nagano, Japan and does business with guitar giant Fender. I believe that Chushin may have been a member of the Matsumoto Musical Instruments Association listed further down because both companies produced Fresher guitars during different periods....with Matsumoto beginning production and Chushin ending it (perhaps because the Association was disbanded?). During the 1960-1980 period they were responsible for badges Bambu, Cobran, El Maya and Hisonus as well as some Charvel, Fresher and Jackson badges. The company may have possibly made some guitars with the Aztec, Maya and Robin badges, but that is not verified. Guitars made by Chushin from this period are well-made and appreciated by guitar enthusiasts worldwide.

https://www.squier-talk.com/threads/japanese-guitar-manufacturers.79896/
 
Dyna Gakki

Dyna Gakki began production in 1972 in the city of Nagano, Japan. They manufactured guitars for Fender Japan and Greco, so they couldn't have been a terrible manufacturer as Fender is very choosy about outsourcing their product. Dyna may have been a source for Japanese manufacturer Yamaki. Dyna also produced the infamous Ibanez badges for a short period of time.

https://www.squier-talk.com/threads/japanese-guitar-manufacturers.79896/
 
Fujigen Gakki

Fujigen Gakki began operation in 1960 as a classical guitar manufacturer, moving into the lucurative electric guitar markets in 1962. The company was the largest producer of Japanese guitars during the 1960-1980 period. They were known for producing high quality products, especially for the badged guitar market, which is why the company was selected by so many major American brands. It wasn't until 1970 that the company began making products for the venerable Ibanez brand, which was an unqualified success. Fujigen Gakki was the main manufacturer of choice for Greco badged guitars in the 1970 to 1980 period. They also produced guitars for major manufacturer Yamaha. Badged guitars made by Fujigen include Antoria, Epiphone, Jason and Mann. Badged guitars that may have been made by Fujigen Gakki were Marlin and St. Moritz.

https://www.squier-talk.com/threads/japanese-guitar-manufacturers.79896/
 
Tokai

Tokai was founded in 1947 and is based in Hamamatsu, Japan. Tokai began production of acoustic guitars in 1965 and by 1968 was producing electric guitars for the American market. Tokai still exists as guitar manufacturer. Tokai made guitars for Fernandes, Mosrite and Fender Japan. Tokai badged guitars included the house brand Tokai as well as Cat's Eyes, Conrad, Drifter, Hondo, Love Rock, Mosrite, Sigma and Silver Star. Possible badges include Artist Ltd., Gaban, Gallan, Gession and Robin. It's suggested that Tokai made Hummingbird acoustics as well...

https://www.squier-talk.com/threads/japanese-guitar-manufacturers.79896/
 
From that brief list, I am seeing the strongest connection to Matsumoku as the missing link.

Runners up Chushin Gakki and Dyna Gakki.

Conrad is listed on the linked page as both a Tokai brand and a Matsumoku brand.

If true, that is another link between the companies.

Significant because Matsumoku made some Grecos and:

1. there are Grecos with the doweled neck tenon like inkie Tokais and

2. at least one Greco SE800 with routs like the Nagano Tokai SS38 in the other TF thread.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26422
 
I found this of guitar makers in Nagano & Hamamatsu:

Japan manufacturer's directory:

Atlansia (N. Hayashi) => late 70's - date => Nagano
Chushin Gakki => 1960 - 1980 => Nagano
Dyna Gakki => 1970 - => Nagano
Fujigen => 1969 to date => 3 plants in Matsumoto Nagano ,
Matsumoku => 1970's - 1987 => Matsumoto, Nagano
Tokai Gakki => 1968* to date => Hamamatsu *1947


Japan "non manufacturer" guitar production companies :

(some have been manufacturers for a portion of their long histories)

Hoshino Gakki Ten => Ibanez => 1929 - date => Nagano , Quindao (2005)
Matsumoto Musical Instruments Association (or Union) => to late 1970's (member co's and manufacturers included Kyowa Shokai, Chushin Gakki, Fukuhara Gakki, Nakai Gakki ) Nagano"


https://www.guitarforums.com/showthread.php?t=45956
 
Do we know who was making Grecos with the dowels that are similar to inkies?

Or the Greco SE800 with the same route and what looks like an "F" stamp as the Nagano SS38?

https://www.carousell.com.my/p/greco-se800-made-in-japan-vintage-1976-276805751/

mUQ5q8e.png


gzYLBfD.jpg


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qekSncN.jpg
 
From reborn old's excellent post on the my les paul forum comparing three guitars with dowels in the neck tenon joint (Tokai, Greco & Bison).

0FaJjDx.jpg

1980 Greco EGC500

mq193pr.jpg

1980-1982 Bison

O6QsaGg.jpg

1980 Tokai LS60 Inkie

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/mij-guitars-that-defy-catalog-specs.262276/page-4

All guitars being compared in this post were routed and had necks joined at a common Matsumoto based plant.

The Greco + Tokai were produced in 1980, and the Bison Golden Era build date is less certain, but between 1980 + 1982 would be a safe bet.
...

Sources at Tokai Japan say there never was a second Tokai plant located 150 km north from their main operations in 1980 - 81.

https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/mij-guitars-that-defy-catalog-specs.262276/page-4
 
More from reborn old on the my Les paul forum. I haven’t seen him here in many years. Hope he’s doing well. Another great resource.

“There are two documented Tokai LS Golden Era examples from 1980 and some ST-45 examples from 1980 as well.

If you take just the two known LS models into consideration along with when they were produced, GuitarGai's argument appears somewhat credible. But when you consider ST-45's had no need for a headstock or headstock name change, and domestic Fender models not changing until 1983, the Lawsuit Era argument becomes less compelling.

Guitar Gai's LS-100 Golden Era is about 375 numbers earlier than the last documented Reborn Old.

The fact that LS models have tombstone headstocks and the ST-45's have Hondo shaped headstocks lead me to believe they were part of a small export special order in 1980. I've contacted various owners to find out where theirs were purchased, but unfortunately, no responses. Changing headstock shapes and script is a practice that has been repeated countless times over the past 35 year by Tokai for export models and/or special orders.

Without help from Tokai Japan or a dealer that sold these, this mystery may go unsolved for quite awhile.

Be it Fujigen or a nearby 3rd party manufacturer, Tokais inkies, Bison Golden Eras and base model Grecos from that time all share a common heritage (same routings + tenons), so use of the Golden Era name by both brands may be more than coincidence, despite obvious cosmetic differences.”


https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/tokai-golden-era-reissue-lps.276151/
 
This is one helluva smoking gun….

Voidoid56 said:
Hm. Well, if so, they certainly built them exactly like Fujigen, detail by detail.

The Tokai SS:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Ht2rRGh.jpg[/img]

August '81 Greco SE450:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/FDnNouP.jpg[/img]

The Tokai SS:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/sdbN8Dw.jpg[/img]

August '81 Greco SE450:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/tBiNAy5.jpg[/img]

The Tokai SS:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/R7DwWV2.jpg[/img]

August '81 Greco SE450 (obviosuly a different stamp):

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BMha4Bs.jpg[/img]

The origin of the the SE450 is not in question, since the 1980-82 SE450 and 700 were (afaik) the only Greco models Fujigen actually "signed".

[img]https://i.imgur.com/A8yEZuX.jpg[/img]

I honestly can't see how these two guitars could have anything but a common origin.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26103&p=198196#p198196
 
Taking a second look at this odd bass....

It is probably a Frankenbass, but curious that it has a Fujigen style December 1977 serial number and "MATSUMOKU" on the plate where it’s rusting. Tokai spaghetti logo.

Brass nut like some early Tokais. Tuner housings look like brass too with nickel plate?

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26198

wCsZQka.jpg


dnCXkoU.jpg


i3EsGNy.jpg


a77pLrd.jpg


yDKbj7a.jpg
 
Adding to the confusion, Kasuga....



SalemB wrote:
Kasuga guitars was made at the Kasuga factory which is more known for making Tokai guitars.



Hmm, I think your wrong there, Tokai makes all guitars in their own factory in Hamamatsu, except for the korean models of course. I've never heard of a japanese Tokai not made in their own factory. I've been playing Tokai's for twenty years now and have a few of them, the most recent one is a strat made in 2002 and the oldest a late 70's/early 80's spaghetti logo "Breezysound" tele.

Mike

----

I sometimes jump to conclusions so I may be wrong. I based the Kasuga-Tokai link on this information from vintageguitar.com. I've found Vintage Guitar Magazine quite reliable in the past but if they lie, I lie.

In May of ’72, a portentous advertisement appeared in The Music Trades. In an ad stretching across the top of a two-page spread, drawn cartoon-fashion with a jet soaring from Japan to the United States, the headline read, “Kasuga Guitars Come To America.â€

----

SalemB wrote:

Moore and Tokai Gakki entered a joint venture called Tokai USA Inc., and Tokai began making private label and OEM guitars. Tokai quickly found it couldn’t keep up with demand, so it found a factory that could meet its quality standards: Kasuga. Another joint venture was established between Tokai USA and Kasuga called Kasuga International. Marketing offices were established in Singapore, Zurich, and Frankfurt. In ’72, these guitars began to come into America.



If the information is correct which it probably is, I think this part explains it all. Tokai found another factory/manufacturer (Kasuga) that could produce the guitars for Toomy Moore. I don't think Tokai had anything to do with Kasuga otherwise. From what I remember Kasuga made really good instruments. I haven't seen one for many years though.

Mike

http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/vi...&sid=ba25f1f983cf5170f044b579f4175f63&start=0
 

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